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  1. #121
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    The Fins top scholars aren't cherry picked automatically by the best paying companies in the world, like the highest achievers here are.

    More specifically, their country has fewer to educate, and a political system geared toward achieving the best outcome for the student.

    There are differences between our two countries that make it slightly more difficult than "why don't we just adopt their education policies" to change our system.

  2. #122
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do they get the equivalent of the $100K salaries that Lowtech mistakenly projects for the Chicago teachers?
    They earn substantially less than teachers do here-the trick, at least from the salary front, is that teacher's salaries are only 13% less than that of average college graduates in Finland, compared to 40% here (I don't know how it breaks down according to major). We would have to either artificially depress salaries in the private sector or raise teacher salaries to unsustainable levels to get the same salary inducements as Finland. You could offer salaries differentiated by subject matter (i.e. pay more for math science, and in some cases less for other subjects) to lessen the effect of relative income on recruitment, though.

  3. #123
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The Fins top scholars aren't cherry picked automatically by the best paying companies in the world, like the highest achievers here are.

    More specifically, their country has fewer to educate, and a political system geared toward achieving the best outcome for the student.

    There are differences between our two countries that make it slightly more difficult than "why don't we just adopt their education policies" to change our system.
    You mean, socialist?

    THERE IS NO LESSON TO LEARN HERE
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  4. #124
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    My patience in dealing with @Kalach is spent, but I would be more than happy to discuss the topic with someone else.

  5. #125
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    My patience in dealing with @Kalach is spent, but I would be more than happy to discuss the topic with someone else.
    Hey, guy. You kept saying test scores count, and that makes the Finns the best. So, which do you prefer: best practice or "I'll stick with my Republican buddies, thanks"?

    Normally I'd have expected to find out why education is a political issue at the moment. Could you ask somebody to write an article?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  6. #126
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Hey, guy. You kept saying test scores count, and that makes the Finns the best. So, which do you prefer: best practice or "I'll stick with my Republican buddies, thanks"?

    Normally I'd have expected to find out why education is a political issue at the moment. Could you ask somebody to write an article?
    Finn = communist scum = fail

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Hey, guy. You kept saying test scores count, and that makes the Finns the best. So, which do you prefer: best practice or "I'll stick with my Republican buddies, thanks"?

    Normally I'd have expected to find out why education is a political issue at the moment. Could you ask somebody to write an article?
    I prefer that which works for our educational system.

    I'm glad the unions are being forced to compromise, that will start a trend where they can be expected to come to the negotiating table in the future to come to deals that work for everyone.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I prefer that which works for our educational system.

    I'm glad the unions are being forced to compromise, that will start a trend where they can be expected to come to the negotiating table in the future to come to deals that work for everyone.
    Sounds kinda communist. What does "works" mean? Can't evaluate without knowing what the goal was.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  9. #129
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I find two main points about the Finnish system resonate with what I believe is needed to have a good education system:
    • Their teachers are the top 10% of their class.
    • The curriculum is flexible.

    You get smart people doing what they do best in a flexible system, and you're going to get good results.

    In the US, teachers come from near the bottom of the class, and a Ph.D. in Education has been a subject of jokes for decades. You get average or below-average achievers, put them in an inflexible system, and you end up with what we have today in too many places. There are exceptional schools/districts, but I suspect one would find that those are the ones which most closely match the two points I list above.
    So, how do we attract our top 10% to teaching???
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #130
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    So, how do we attract our top 10% to teaching???
    A flexible environment (such as Finland's), and reasonable pay. Pay is secondary, but should be more or less commensurate with being a professional, someone who brings special knowledge and experience to the job. Remember, the top 10% goes on to get a college/graduate education that often leaves them in debt, so there's a minimum level that would make a career in a field viable.

    The flexible environment is the primary need. This means allowing things to go wrong as well as allowing things to go right. With flexibility, some teachers will teach utter crap, but most of them will bring something special that cannot be a regular part of a one-size-fits-all curriculum. Also, the best and brightest will generally be unwilling to work in a rigid and inflexible environment: that's what made me look elsewhere, when teaching physics/science/math was something I was genuinely interested in doing.
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