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  1. #1
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    Default The United 'Police' States of America

    What do you think of The United States' historical tendency to involve itself in global affairs?

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    It is my contention that the United States has been a factor towards maintaining relative stability in human rights violations across the globe, as well as setting a tone for what will and will not be tolerated in the world for current and future generations. War is a dirty, dirty business - but so is tyranny.



    I oft hear the driving factor for us policing the Middle East is for oil, though the claim has always puzzled me:

    http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...-its-oil-from/

    Am I being fed propaganda, or am I capable of smelling shit when I'm near it? Do my conclusions lack proper insight?






    I suppose I can also expand on my philosophical beliefs. I believe every human being is owed to be on relative equal ground upon birth. To be ethnically or religiously persecuted is not cool in my book - and to do so with such vigor as to suppress the existence of a certain peoples is to have force brung against you - in whatever practical form that may be.

    Can you smell the irony in that last statement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    What do you think of The United States' historical tendency to involve itself in global affairs?
    We were asked to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    We were asked to.
    I always find this kind of amusing, because people often forget it.

    Whenever we involve ourselves in foreign affairs, people (read countries) seem to complain. And yet, oftentimes when we don't want to involve ourselves, we are asked to become involved. If we resist or refuse, people complain again, or prod us into becoming involved, and then complain that we got involved...

    The moral of the story: people are never happy.
    ...

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    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I used to think that America ought to focus more on themselves.. That we have many problems and more that could be fixed if we just turned into ourselves and ignored the rest of the world for a while.. so many other countries have the power and capabilities but never bother, so why must it always fall on us?

    During some reflection (read: a meditation ritual) I noticed something within my mother, and within me.. both very patriotic peoples. My mother, if she had taken the time, could have turned to only herself, stopped caring for others, and dealt with her own problems.. but the problems of those around her were greater than her own, and she had the ability, and it didn't matter if others had the ability or not--She was the one that stood up in the end.. and in doing so, she made a great role model, example, and problem solver out of not only herself, but out of myself as her daughter living in her footsteps. She found a way to deal with her problems without shunning those around her, and even though it was thankless work, people knew they could come to her even when they didn't appreciate it later.


    And many people who are fed media reports about people not wanting us there need to go visit countries in turmoil. When I was in Iraq in person, it was overwhelmingly obvious that we were wanted there. People sacrificed their families, their entire lives, moved from their homes, and worked their asses off just to train with us and be around us. There were so many people that were genuinely happy we were there. The media would have had us believing that the goats even wanted us out at the time. I'm not saying EVERYONE wanted us there.. but the people that did were progressive people, women, children, and men that want to see war and bloodshed end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I used to think that America ought to focus more on themselves.. That we have many problems and more that could be fixed if we just turned into ourselves and ignored the rest of the world for a while.. so many other countries have the power and capabilities but never bother, so why must it always fall on us?

    During some reflection (read: a meditation ritual) I noticed something within my mother, and within me.. both very patriotic peoples. My mother, if she had taken the time, could have turned to only herself, stopped caring for others, and dealt with her own problems.. but the problems of those around her were greater than her own, and she had the ability, and it didn't matter if others had the ability or not--She was the one that stood up in the end.. and in doing so, she made a great role model, example, and problem solver out of not only herself, but out of myself as her daughter living in her footsteps. She found a way to deal with her problems without shunning those around her, and even though it was thankless work, people knew they could come to her even when they didn't appreciate it later.


    And many people who are fed media reports about people not wanting us there need to go visit countries in turmoil. When I was in Iraq in person, it was overwhelmingly obvious that we were wanted there. People sacrificed their families, their entire lives, moved from their homes, and worked their asses off just to train with us and be around us. There were so many people that were genuinely happy we were there. The media would have had us believing that the goats even wanted us out at the time. I'm not saying EVERYONE wanted us there.. but the people that did were progressive people, women, children, and men that want to see war and bloodshed end.

    We are the strength of the weak. I wish nay-sayers would see that, or I could turn a blind eye.


    Sounds like a lovely woman.

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    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    We are the strength of the weak. I wish nay-sayers would see that, or I could turn a blind eye.


    Sounds like a lovely woman.
    I think that's what it boils down to.. if we turn our backs so easily and readily.. is that a sign to our own that we could do the same to them if our problems are deemed too great? If my mother was so ready to turn her back on others.. I don't think I'd find her nearly as approachable as I do now.. The actions you take set an example to people whether you want them to or not. There are consequences of every decision. I don't think our conscience affords us the ability to so easily turn down the needs of others trying to survive and simply live when we have people going beyond surviving in our own home. Maybe not all of our problems are fixed, and maybe we have some major flaws.. but if everyone waited until they were in a perfect situation to have kids, to take a vacation, to find a new opportunity.. no one would ever do anything.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think that's what it boils down to.. if we turn our backs so easily and readily.. is that a sign to our own that we could do the same to them if our problems are deemed too great? If my mother was so ready to turn her back on others.. I don't think I'd find her nearly as approachable as I do now.. The actions you take set an example to people whether you want them to or not. There are consequences of every decision. I don't think our conscience affords us the ability to so easily turn down the needs of others trying to survive and simply live when we have people going beyond surviving in our own home. Maybe not all of our problems are fixed, and maybe we have some major flaws.. but if everyone waited until they were in a perfect situation to have kids, to take a vacation, to find a new opportunity.. no one would ever do anything.

    Yes, it seems we share very similar minds regarding the subject. I like your analogy to everyday life, about being ready. I dislike when people make the claim "we have things here at home we need to take care of!" Like what, give the homeless sandwiches? When was the last genocidal oppression you read about in the local paper? The last time some soldier, even one state sponsored soldier, raped a woman out of power in uniform? Sigh.


    I just want the first person to come in and disagree -_- That's when I can really learn, lol.

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    Well, I disagree with all in the thread thus far. Often US policy with regard to foreign intervention is based on power projection for it's own selfish strategic interests. I can cite numerous examples such as the bay of pigs, Iran Contra, the puppet governments set up in Latin America as banana republics often for economic interests (such as the control of the Panama canal), even going back to things like the Mexican American war, purchase of land from Napoleon to help France recover from war with the Louisiana purchase, etc. America is hardly a beneficent authority taking action out of magnanimity This view is largely propaganda designed so that the people doing these actions and the population whose taxes support them don't have to feel culpability for those actions. Of course you're speaking to someone whose mother remembers being afraid as the CIA moved in to support a coup against the legitimately elected government because of it's selfish concerns in an ideological battle with the USSR

    Now I'll summon @Lark to school you further
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Well, I disagree with all in the thread thus far. Often US policy with regard to foreign intervention is based on power projection for it's own selfish strategic interests. I can cite numerous examples such as the bay of pigs, Iran Contra, the puppet governments set up in Latin America as banana republics often for economic interests (such as the control of the Panama canal), even going back to things like the Mexican American war, purchase of land from Napoleon to help France recover from war with the Louisiana purchase, etc. America is hardly a beneficent authority taking action out of magnanimity This view is largely propaganda designed so that the people doing these actions and the population whose taxes support them don't have to feel culpability for those actions. Of course you're speaking to someone whose mother remembers being afraid as the CIA moved in to support a coup against the legitimately elected government because of it's selfish concerns in an ideological battle with the USSR

    Now I'll summon @Lark to school you further

    Okay, so far you are speaking of things that happened forty years plus... it's like me faulting modern German history for WWI and WWII. Even then, I feel most of those situations were justified contextually.


    What about the Bosnian Civil War?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

    Europe was doing nothing to genuinely alleviate the situation. Troops sent in were ordered not to fire, even if it was to protect civilians D=

    The US sent troops, conflict is over in 73 days.







    Plus, communism is evil, don't know you know that?





    Edit: The Iran-Contra affair wasn't so much as an armed conflict, though I understand how it could put a damper on your disposition regarding the subject.

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