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  1. #41
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Nations aren't people, and shouldn't be held to the same standards as individuals. Non-interference is best, and I believe the US military should be a purely defensive force, but know that's unlikely. The best the US government can do is get out of the way, and allow its people to aid others as much as they can, because organizations like the red cross can and do perform a much better job providing aid than the US government ever could. There is a legitimate role for the US government in foreign affairs, but it's much more limited than what we have.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    There is a legitimate role for the US government in foreign affairs, but it's much more limited than what we have.
    This is my basic position. Politics and diplomacy are matters governed by prudence when nations have to protect their legitimate interests. That means picking and choosing your battles when those interests are threatened. I agree with the argument that we've operated under a "grand strategic deficit" for too long.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Nations aren't people, and shouldn't be held to the same standards as individuals. Non-interference is best, and I believe the US military should be a purely defensive force, but know that's unlikely. The best the US government can do is get out of the way, and allow its people to aid others as much as they can, because organizations like the red cross can and do perform a much better job providing aid than the US government ever could. There is a legitimate role for the US government in foreign affairs, but it's much more limited than what we have.

    I guess I don't see nations different from people. Nations are people.


    So, again I'll run through a quick list: Pol-Pot in Cambodia, Rwanda, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Israel, Bosnia... am I forgetting anything I've mentioned yet?

    All of the situations that occurred in these nations, would they have developed favorably for the citizens had we not provided influence? Or are you saying we shouldn't care?

  4. #44
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    its obvious that usa is just after some self interests in this 'police' shit they mask it as. not saying that its the only government doing stuff like that, but its the biggest one.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    its obvious that usa is just after some self interests in this 'police' shit they mask it as. not saying that its the only government doing stuff like that, but its the biggest one.

    I believe America's number one interest is security for those at home and abroad, so, yes, you are correct.

  6. #46
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post

    So, again I'll run through a quick list: Pol-Pot in Cambodia, Rwanda, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Israel, Bosnia... am I forgetting anything I've mentioned yet?
    Darfur/Sudan, not sure what your requirements are for the list so withholding more
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  7. #47
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I believe America's number one interest is security for those at home and abroad, so, yes, you are correct.
    Its pretty common for governments to create an threat to justify actions that would otherwise not be justified or would look bad to the public.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Its pretty common for governments to create an threat to justify actions that would otherwise not be justified or would look bad to the public.

    Okay, are you implying the events that I and Cim have posted were falsities generated by the American government?



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Darfur/Sudan, not sure what your requirements are for the list so withholding more

    There is no criteria, I feel it's pretty much an open forum for whatever you wish to talk about =D

  9. #49
    Member MXZCCT's Avatar
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    Obviously America is going to work to protect it's own interests. It would be stupid not to. As an American, we still believe in some sort of utopia where freedom for all individuals and prosperity is the ultimate goal. But, it our delusion to provide it to others it comes at a cost, which weakens our own position "in country". We want to help people. But it is all a matter of perspective I suppose. No matter how much aid we give to countries we are still seen as conquistadors conquering another country. Ironic if I do say so myself.

    Despite the misgivings the Iraq situation, America's intent was still noble. Whether or not our actions in Iraq were worth the trouble, history will tell. Personally I do not believe we should have sent our men and women into that country. Afghanistan on the other hand was simple payback and it was a long time coming. You bring down a couple sky scrapers and rough men will show up and put a bullet in your head, as UBL most certainly found out.

    You can say what you want about America. But you cannot fight the scum on this Earth and not expect to get your hands dirty. America is still currently top dog on the porch, and will always be hated because we are top dog. People love to point the finger at the most powerful for their misgivings...

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MXZCCT View Post
    Obviously America is going to work to protect it's own interests. It would be stupid not to. As an American, we still believe in some sort of utopia where freedom for all individuals and prosperity is the ultimate goal. But, it our delusion to provide it to others it comes at a cost, which weakens our own position "in country". We want to help people. But it is all a matter of perspective I suppose. No matter how much aid we give to countries we are still seen as conquistadors conquering another country. Ironic if I do say so myself.

    Despite the misgivings the Iraq situation, America's intent was still noble. Whether or not our actions in Iraq were worth the trouble, history will tell. Personally I do not believe we should have sent our men and women into that country. Afghanistan on the other hand was simple payback and it was a long time coming. You bring down a couple sky scrapers and rough men will show up and put a bullet in your head, as UBL most certainly found out.

    You can say what you want about America. But you cannot fight the scum on this Earth and not expect to get your hands dirty. America is still currently top dog on the porch, and will always be hated because we are top dog. People love to point the finger at the most powerful for their misgivings...

    Insightful, mildly neutral, thought provoking post. Thank you.



    I guess the whole thing about going into Iraq, is that I prefer to think I don't know about what we discovered with the whole Afghanistan situation. I wonder about how much there is to know that the average worldly citizen doesn't know, you know?

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