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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    What I don't understand is why people insist that I vote. I don't know how they can say that without secretly having it mean "vote and also make the right vote"
    I think it's just as important to have the right not to vote as it is to have the right to vote.

  2. #52
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    I always vote. It then gives me the right to complain. WIN WIN WIN

  3. #53
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If politicians could really say what they believe and would do in office, and still get elected, they would.

    To make it to the presidency one has to first conform to a party ideal to get their support. That's why you don't hear about Romneycare in Mass.

    Everyone is forced to play the game to get there, but once there there is no reason to play the game anymore (unless reelection looms, which is why 2nd term presidents are always more legislatively ballsy than they would be otherwise).

    The president becomes the defacto head of his party and as such can no longer be told what to believe or say because the party can't threaten to pull campaign support from them anymore.

    Given this, I think the presidential tendency to do what they want is both right, and the way it is.

    More importantly I think it's the way it has to be, right now at least. Until the parties lose their stranglehold on politicians, we wont have leaders willing to address what they believe as opposed to what the party tells them to say.
    +1. Great post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    The thing is: choosing one or the other, once you've decided to vote, is the only logical choice. The author of that article is asking for some sort of huge change in the system, but changing the system is something that has to be done en masse, over time. If you're in the ballot box, having to choose between people you don't like, then you still have to make that choice. You can't just pout and say "I wish it weren't this way", because right now, it is that way, and wishing isn't going to change it.

    (I'm glad she's trying to start a conversation about it, but so much of that article came across as bitching, to me.)


    Edit: Needless to say, I'm voting.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The thing is: choosing one or the other, once you've decided to vote, is the only logical choice. The author of that article is asking for some sort of huge change in the system, but changing the system is something that has to be done en masse, over time. If you're in the ballot box, having to choose between people you don't like, then you still have to make that choice. You can't just pout and say "I wish it weren't this way", because right now, it is that way, and wishing isn't going to change it.

    (I'm glad she's trying to start a conversation about it, but so much of that article came across as bitching, to me.)


    Edit: Needless to say, I'm voting.
    + 12 googleplexes

  5. #55
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The thing is: choosing one or the other, once you've decided to vote, is the only logical choice.
    Yeah, because it's the only choice, which was the whole point of the author's complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The author of that article is asking for some sort of huge change in the system, but changing the system is something that has to be done en masse, over time. If you're in the ballot box, having to choose between people you don't like, then you still have to make that choice. You can't just pout and say "I wish it weren't this way", because right now, it is that way, and wishing isn't going to change it.
    Neither is voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    (I'm glad she's trying to start a conversation about it, but so much of that article came across as bitching, to me.)
    Well, it was mostly a criticism of Obama, which I found refreshing after having to hear the "go team" BS of the last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Edit: Needless to say, I'm voting.
    Really, the only function of the election is to provide a prolonged media event, but even that's useless because it lacks any entertainment value.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #56
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Good thing repairing the whole corrupt system is as as easy as not voting, right?!
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #57
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Good thing repairing the whole corrupt system is as as easy as not voting, right?!
    Well it certainly isn't as easy as voting either.
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  8. #58
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well it certainly isn't as easy as voting either.
    In theory it could be. The scary things is that the voting system isn't so much rigged as the voting habits of people are very easily manipulated.

    Anyhow, one person going out and voting doesn't amount to much, but it is a collective thing that apparently has some impact. I say it has some impact because I've never known an election boycott to leave the boycotters unharmed.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #59
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Good thing repairing the whole corrupt system is as as easy as not voting, right?!
    It actually might be that easy. Well no, not really.

    But if we leave the intelligent and knowledgeable to vote, it would be best to get out of their way.

    If someone is so smart, by all means vote! Your vote will be more effective by my not voting!

  10. #60
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    It actually might be that easy. Well no, not really.

    But if we leave the intelligent and knowledgeable to vote, it would be best to get out of their way.

    If someone is so smart, by all means vote! Your vote will be more effective by my not voting!
    I'm with Walter Lippmann when he said that it would take several lifetimes to be competent enough at all of the relevant subjects to be "smart enough" to vote.

    Actually, I think the totally ignorant voter is more subversive.
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