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  1. #31
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    What is your point?
    It's your ideal but it isn't practical.

    If anything is tradition and custom, that is it.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    It's your ideal but it isn't practical.
    Of course it is practical - not as a means of self-defense, but as a way to deal with the situation. He probably did it, too. Obviously I am not suggesting that instead of defending oneself one should reach for the phone in a life-threatening situation. He was not in such a situation, though.

    Are you advocating that, because the 'police suck pretty bad at catching people', people should not call them at all?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    He had been robbed at least thrice before the current incident. It would have been reasonable to assume that he would be robbed again, not physically attacked, raped or murdered. I guess that is what he assumed, too; but, since he has the right to shoot robbers, he did.
    It would also be reasonable to assume that these burglars could escalate their violation of this man's security given his age and the fact that nothing had happened to them in the past.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I am less concerned with an individuals instinctive reaction in a (perceived or real) case of emergency. I am however disturbed by a mass of people cheering over the death of another human being while calmly sitting in front of their computers.

    My original statement of the old man dying happy was satirical. I can imagine being that old and now having wracked guilt of killing another human being on his mind.


    He used a .22 caliber, a relatively low power round, and only fired one shot. I don't think he intended to kill them as much as he did teach them a lesson, perhaps in his mindset he hadn't developed the thought that low powered or not the round can kill.


    Either way, I think that you are skewing the perception generated by this event. People are not explicitly glad this human being died, it is the underlying context, the larger lesson learned - don't fuck with people. The same theme rang true in another thread when that bully followed the kid off the bus - don't fuck with people.


    In today's society, and perhaps this has even been true of society far back beyond today, you simply cannot fuck with people and expect to be granted mercy or anything along the lines of.


    .

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    In today's society, and perhaps this has even been true of society far back beyond today, you simply cannot fuck with people and expect to be granted mercy or anything along the lines of.
    I view burglars who get shot similar to how I view motorcyclists who ride without helmets, the only difference being that I have more sympathy for motorcyclists because they're not violating anyone's rights while engaging in their reckless behavior.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I view burglars who get shot similar to how I view motorcyclists who ride without helmets, the only difference being that I have more sympathy for motorcyclists because they're not violating anyone's rights while engaging in their reckless behavior.

    A very fine analogy, being a motorcyclist myself.


    More words for my arsenal!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It would also be reasonable to assume that these burglars could escalate their violation of this man's security given his age and the fact that nothing had happened to them in the past.
    So, killing one of the burglars was not only the right but also the only reasonable option he had?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    So, killing one of the burglars was not only the right but also the only reasonable option he had?
    1. You're assuming that his intent was to kill, not to wound or frighten.
    2. It was not his only reasonable, it was a reasonable option. Calling the police is also reasonable, but that being a reasonable option does not exclude all other options.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Of course it is practical - not as a means of self-defense, but as a way to deal with the situation. He probably did it, too. Obviously I am not suggesting that instead of defending oneself one should reach for the phone in a life-threatening situation. He was not in such a situation, though.

    Are you advocating that, because the 'police suck pretty bad at catching people', people should not call them at all?
    No. I'm saying that it is easy to claim that someone is not in a particular situation when you are not in that situation and can see it from the out side.

    It looks completely different when someone is kicking down a door that is inside your house and you're standing there as they do it and you don't have the luxury of looking back on a situation.

    Your perspective after the fact is more omniscient than what was available to him in his perspective.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    1. You're assuming that his intent was to kill, not to wound or frighten.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    2. It was not his only reasonable, it was a reasonable option. Calling the police is also reasonable, but that being a reasonable option does not exclude all others.
    Indeed. And if you do not want to risk killing someone, you choose an option that is unlikely to kill.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    No. I'm saying that it is easy to claim that someone is not in a particular situation when you are not in that situation and can see it from the out side.

    It looks completely different when someone is kicking down a door that is inside your house and you're standing there as they do it and you don't have the luxury of looking back on a situation.

    Your perspective after the fact is more omniscient than what was available to him in his perspective.

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