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  1. #11
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    You, going off of the political ideology you seem to have supported in the past, seem to me to be more of a libertarian than a conservative.
    You're not the first to make this mistake. Libertarians and I agree a lot on federal policy and I also seem more libertarian because so many "conservatives" of all types are so damned progressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Conservatism has nothing to do with Christianity, at least in and of itself. In fact, some its biggest proponents were anti-Christian. Not to say it's necessarily incompatible, but that political ideologies are political ideologies, period. Aspects of some may be more or less compatible with Christianity than others, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily Christian ideologies.
    You're sort of getting at and missing my point at the same time. I don't conflate my religion with my politics. My politics are informed by my religion, but they are not the same otherwise I would be engaging in idol worship. Conservativism is distinctly different from all other political views as it isn't a religion or ideology because it doesn't have any strict dogma. Rather it is a set of principles which have been argued about over the years and represent the collective wisdom of people who historically were Christian and had a Christian worldview. As long as someone can subscribe to those principles they don't necessarily have to be a Christian. However, because of the inherent idol worship involved with all other political ideologies I do believe that all Christians should be conservatives. Whether you hold up the political answer to be a king, the state, the people, or the individual it is all idol worship to be avoided.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The core ideology behind conservativism is that it isn't an ideology. We have a religion and Christ the savior so we don't need the state to save us. I'm not interested in a civil religion to inflict on others by force as left-wingers are so intent on doing.

    Edit: Btw, libertarians are political ideologues and this why libertarians are NOT conservatives.
    This is nonsense.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is nonsense.
    Ok... tell Russell Kirk that.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Ok... tell Russell Kirk that.
    People from every ideology believe they're fundamentally "different". It's all self-serving BS.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #15
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    You're not the first to make this mistake. Libertarians and I agree a lot on federal policy and I also seem more libertarian because so many "conservatives" of all types are so damned progressive.



    You're sort of getting at and missing my point at the same time. I don't conflate my religion with my politics. My politics are informed by my religion, but they are not the same otherwise I would be engaging in idol worship. Conservativism is distinctly different from all other political views as it isn't a religion or ideology because it doesn't have any strict dogma. Rather it is a set of principles which have been argued about over the years and represent the collective wisdom of people who historically were Christian and had a Christian worldview. As long as someone can subscribe to those principles they don't necessarily have to be a Christian. However, because of the inherent idol worship involved with all other political ideologies I do believe that all Christians should be conservatives. Whether you hold up the political answer to be a king, the state, the people, or the individual it is all idol worship to be avoided.
    I think I understand what you're getting at, but don't agree that conservatism avoids that trap more than any other ideology. That's all in the individual. There are some extreme ideologues to be found in every camp. I find myself agreeing with pretty much every basic point you've made, and for that very same reason generally promote a libertarian perspective...well, to be more technically correct a classically liberal perspective. I understand that pure libertarianism, strictly based on the non-aggression priniciple, is pretty amoral, but I don't think that's true of the variety people are usually referring to when they use the term.
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  6. #16
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I think I understand what you're getting at, but don't agree that conservatism avoids that trap more than any other ideology. That's all in the individual. There are some extreme ideologues to be found in every camp. I find myself agreeing with pretty much every basic point you've made, and for that very same reason generally promote a libertarian perspective...well, to be more technically correct a classically liberal perspective. I understand that pure libertarianism, strictly based on the non-aggression priniciple, is pretty amoral, but I don't think that's true of the variety people are usually referring to when they use the term.
    I've spent some time around a lot of libertarian anarcho-capitalists so I'm more inclined to draw the distinction.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #17
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I've spent some time around a lot of libertarian anarcho-capitalists so I'm more inclined to draw the distinction.
    I guess what I'm getting at is that as I understand it, conservatism is about what "works." Maintream libertarianism/classical liberalism is based around natural rights, and man's relationship to the government (it's purpose being to serve him, rather than the other way around) Theoretically, a conservative can support any kind of flawed system, really, including fascist states. You can see it in much of the Republican base, to be honest. A conservative, as I see it, may support the concept of natural rights, but it's more incidental to being an American than inherent in their ideology.
    You lose.

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