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  1. #51
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I see. I can understand knowing particulars about a persons beliefs can lead to not wanting to vote for someone. Still, I just see someone self-identifying as a particular religion to identify the hegemony of their beliefs in spiritual matters. Removing someone from consideration based on that little information seems drastic.

    Most Mormons I have known in real life have been very kind and giving people. Actually, I have found that of religious people of all ilk, whether they are Muslims, Mormons, Catholics, or Hindus. If they care deeply about their religion (and not just about "looking" religious), they are, on the whole, charitable, conscientious, have strong social ties, and believe it or not, very tolerant of individual quirks and differences. The fanatics we hear about, IME, are usually outliers.

    I do find many beliefs that religious people hold in many religions to be not congruent with the facts, and I find this troubling. But, somehow, in day to day interactions with people like this, I tend to find a more warm and accepting environment than in more (for a lack of a better word) secular homes.
    Being kind and giving may be enough for my nextdoor neighbor or office mate, but I hold elected officials, especially on the national level, to a higher standard. Anyone who dismisses the facts in favor of subjective beliefs when making policy decisions that affect society at large is unfit for public office. One can make a distinction between membership in a religious group, and actual personal belief. As an extreme example, plenty of people in totalitarian regimes have belonged to the ruling party or associated groups without actually embracing their doctrines, just for the relative safety and material benefits. More relevantly, plenty of people belong to churches because of family or cultural traditions, for social or charitable involvement, or even for networking purposes. I don't care about that. I want to know what a candidate really believes, and how it will influence his/her decisions and world view.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #52
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    The minimalism of my encounter with Mormonism was pretty nice in its minimalism, and i do not mean that sarcastically: My ex-grandmother-in-law is Mormon, and she at one point explained that the reason she won't preach about Mormonism to someone that doesn't ask, is that the Mormon answer to the question of whether people who aren't Mormon all go to hell, is that it only applies if they know about 'the truth' and rejected it, as god wouldn't condemn someone to hell just for never being in the right place or the right time, so preaching to someone who isn't interested and isn't likely to accept or be looking for the 'the truth' would be the act of condemning them to hell, which she was unwilling to do.

    I don't know how much of that was personalized and how much of it is characteristic of the religion, but for a christian faith, that's pretty admirable.

    also, the south park episode was awesome, and a world without Mormonism would be a world without that episode. who would want to live in that?

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I want to know what a candidate really believes, and how it will influence his/her decisions and world view.
    I do too. But can we expect this realistically from either candidate? This is politics.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  4. #54
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    The minimalism of my encounter with Mormonism was pretty nice in its minimalism, and i do not mean that sarcastically: My ex-grandmother-in-law is Mormon, and she at one point explained that the reason she won't preach about Mormonism to someone that doesn't ask, is that the Mormon answer to the question of whether people who aren't Mormon all go to hell, is that it only applies if they know about 'the truth' and rejected it, as god wouldn't condemn someone to hell just for never being in the right place or the right time, so preaching to someone who isn't interested and isn't likely to accept or be looking for the 'the truth' would be the act of condemning them to hell, which she was unwilling to do.
    That's pretty funny. I doubt it was supposed to be applied that way. It's true of the JW too, and I asked the same question, why tell anyone if they might reject??

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I do too. But can we expect this realistically from either candidate? This is politics.
    I think it's possible, perhaps even likely, that Obama is an atheist. But being accused of being an atheist is even worse than being accused of being a Muslim when it comes to politics in this country. So Obama pretends to be a Christian. This whole "religion doesn't matter" issue is applied unequally.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    The minimalism of my encounter with Mormonism was pretty nice in its minimalism, and i do not mean that sarcastically: My ex-grandmother-in-law is Mormon, and she at one point explained that the reason she won't preach about Mormonism to someone that doesn't ask, is that the Mormon answer to the question of whether people who aren't Mormon all go to hell, is that it only applies if they know about 'the truth' and rejected it, as god wouldn't condemn someone to hell just for never being in the right place or the right time, so preaching to someone who isn't interested and isn't likely to accept or be looking for the 'the truth' would be the act of condemning them to hell, which she was unwilling to do.

    I don't know how much of that was personalized and how much of it is characteristic of the religion, but for a christian faith, that's pretty admirable.

    also, the south park episode was awesome, and a world without Mormonism would be a world without that episode. who would want to live in that?
    The Mormon Church has a special name for those kinds of people called "Sons of Perdition". These are people who have actually seen full and living proof of Jesus Christ and that he is without question the savior but reject him anyway, these people then being condemned to outer darkness, the Mormon equivalent of Hell.

    How do I know all of this you might ask? It is because I was born into this stupid bullshit religion!

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The Mormon Church has a special name for those kinds of people called "Sons of Perdition". These are people who have actually seen full and living proof of Jesus Christ and that he is without question the savior but reject him anyway, these people then being condemned to outer darkness, the Mormon equivalent of Hell.

    How do I know all of this you might ask? It is because I was born into this stupid bullshit religion!
    A good church-going Mormon told me that Mormonism has no hell. It has a kind of prison (that's not the technical term for it) where salvation is still possible. Look it up, they describe all the weirdness online.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  8. #58
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    A good church-going Mormon told me that Mormonism has no hell. It has a kind of prison (that's not the technical term for it) where salvation is still possible. Look it up, they describe all the weirdness online.
    Much as how the Catholics had limbo for babies who died before they were baptised?

    More of man creating God in his own image.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #59
    Knobgoblin mooseantlers's Avatar
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    A vote for Romney is a vote for the Mormon church. Take my word for it; my mom is a Mormon, the church comes first in the life of a Mormon person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooseantlers View Post
    A vote for Romney is a vote for the Mormon church. Take my word for it; my mom is a Mormon, the church comes first in the life of a Mormon person.
    I'm a Mormon member though I don't beleive in it and trust me, church is at the very bottom of my priorities!

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