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  1. #31
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think it's a pretty cool try. It will raise the dander of a lot of folks, but some people might think a little bit about it.

    I didn't really have a clue about white privilege until about twelve years ago when I was taking an English class out of sequence at community college in rural Kansas. One day our instructor was late to class because he got pulled over on the way into town. There were several black male athletes in the class and someone asked the instructor if they searched his car. I was surprised to learn that day that the black guys in my class thought having one's car searched was standard operating procedure for a traffic stop. They were surprised to learn that it wasn't.

    I know I still don't have much of a clue about racial issues and I know that I still have ingrained racism, but I think it is easy for white people to underestimate the impact of racism on minorities in the US. The statistics on a bunch of quality of life issues make a pretty good case, IMO.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but awareness is a good start. That way if people are just doing stuff in ignorance, they will make an effort to cut it out and maybe recognize it when they see it happening and speak up.

    Anyway, here's a blog post by a favorite sci-fi author of mine explaining privilege in gamer terms for anyone interested. I haven't searched the forum to see whether or not it's already been discussed. If it's please disregard.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #32
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    For how long are you going to be able to maintain the myth of white privilege though? The majority of white people are not privileged and so long as critical thinking focuses on the ethnicity of privileged people instead of privilege per se it will be seriously wide of the mark.

    You mention being of mixed race, well I would suggest that everyone is of mixed race, the only reason I think it is important to answer census or equality information gathering sections of forms with caucasion (seplling) or white european or white irish is because I know the information is important to people who are assessing the populations of people on the basis of this criteria which are doing certain things, like going to university.

    There is a lot of inter-"white" racism, Hitler's Aryanism for instance in its racial science had, unbeknownst to a hell of a lot of people, as the lowest species known to man the "celt", that's a lesser "breed" of subhuman than any of the groups they are remembered for hating like Jews, Slavs or even Africans (most africans did not register on Nazi or Fascist radars at the time, being largely abscent from Europe, Frano employed Moorish mercenaries and Mussolini's campaign in abbysinia/ethiopia wasnt even ethnically motivated), the "celts" were of Irish or Scotch descent but generally just any white population which was disliked or despised.

    Tim Pat Coogan's book on the IRA records that when the IRA had any contact with Nazi Germany the response was generally that they thought it was a good thing that the Irish were prepared to "die for ireland" and they should go on doing so and that the neutrality of the Irish government under Devalera was a sign of cowardice (despite that Dev went on to send his condolences to Germany upon the report of Hitler's death).

    I'm aware the variety of ethnicities within the group deemed "white", and as I mentioned in my first post I realize white people also face poverty. However I disagree that white privilege does not exist in the US (where this ad campaign was held).

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think it's a pretty cool try. It will raise the dander of a lot of folks, but some people might think a little bit about it.

    I didn't really have a clue about white privilege until about twelve years ago when I was taking an English class out of sequence at community college in rural Kansas. One day our instructor was late to class because he got pulled over on the way into town. There were several black male athletes in the class and someone asked the instructor if they searched his car. I was surprised to learn that day that the black guys in my class thought having one's car searched was standard operating procedure for a traffic stop. They were surprised to learn that it wasn't.
    Apparently they don't realize that they don't have to agree to a search.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I'm aware the variety of ethnicities within the group deemed "white", and as I mentioned in my first post I realize white people also face poverty. However I disagree that white privilege does not exist in the US (where this ad campaign was held).
    White privilege, Black privilege, Jewish privilege, etc. exists.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #35
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Apparently they don't realize that they don't have to agree to a search.
    Most did not. Of course, I could also not know it and it would never be a problem. I've almost always driven older vehicles. I've driven dented vehicles. I've driven vehicles that had sheets of plastic duct taped over windows. I routinely drive over the speed limit. I've had at least a half dozen fender-benders. I've never had my vehicle searched. I could probably fill my stow-and-go compartments with weed and take it on a cross country road trip without a problem if I was so inclined.

    I don't think learning that they do not have to consent to searches probably changed anything for my classmates. A story about an unarmed black man being shot by police pops up in the news at least every couple of years. I don't think any of the guys in my class were brave (stupid?) enough to risk it.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #36
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I think I am in a unique position to respond because my "race" is ambiguous to many people. If I am asked I'll often give a phony answer to see how people respond. When I say I am Italian (true) the response is very different than if I say Armenian (not true) or Spanish (true). That at its essence is white privilege. It's interesting to see a girl's eyes deflate at a club or a blonde haired blue eyed white person treat you as though you're they're so surprised at how intelligent you are because that wasn't the first impression they got off of you (usually male white ntjs). To be honest I kind of see white privilege as a joke thus my "what makes white people white" thread. It seems like the prevalence of intj aspie retards in white people is much higher for example.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  7. #37
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I didn't really have a clue about white privilege until about twelve years ago when I was taking an English class out of sequence at community college in rural Kansas. One day our instructor was late to class because he got pulled over on the way into town. There were several black male athletes in the class and someone asked the instructor if they searched his car. I was surprised to learn that day that the black guys in my class thought having one's car searched was standard operating procedure for a traffic stop. They were surprised to learn that it wasn't.
    I'd call that a form of discrimination against black, not privilege in favor of whites. A given citizen is considered unguilty until proven otherwise, if blacks are not, then they're being discriminated - but whites aren't being considered unguilty when proven (which would be a privilege).

    When I say I am Italian (true) the response is very different than if I say Armenian (not true) or Spanish (true). That at its essence is white privilege.
    Which one garners the best response? Are armenians or spaniards non-white in the US? :/
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #38
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Being aware of privilege is not the same thing as being ashamed of what you were born with.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think it's a pretty cool try. It will raise the dander of a lot of folks, but some people might think a little bit about it.

    I didn't really have a clue about white privilege until about twelve years ago when I was taking an English class out of sequence at community college in rural Kansas. One day our instructor was late to class because he got pulled over on the way into town. There were several black male athletes in the class and someone asked the instructor if they searched his car. I was surprised to learn that day that the black guys in my class thought having one's car searched was standard operating procedure for a traffic stop. They were surprised to learn that it wasn't.

    I know I still don't have much of a clue about racial issues and I know that I still have ingrained racism, but I think it is easy for white people to underestimate the impact of racism on minorities in the US. The statistics on a bunch of quality of life issues make a pretty good case, IMO.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but awareness is a good start. That way if people are just doing stuff in ignorance, they will make an effort to cut it out and maybe recognize it when they see it happening and speak up.

    Anyway, here's a blog post by a favorite sci-fi author of mine explaining privilege in gamer terms for anyone interested. I haven't searched the forum to see whether or not it's already been discussed. If it's please disregard.
    I appreciate this response. It's true, this campaign is gonna raise the hackles of some people but the intent isnt to be deragotory towards "white people" but rather raise consciousness in "the whitest place in America" where organically there would be very few opportunities for "life experience" to create these opportunities.

    Also stories like UniqueMixtures are the kind of "other [non white] perspectives" that don't really get a voice or audience in "places like Duluth" hence the campaign.

    And Mal, what I thought was amazing is that this isn't a fringe student group wheat pasting some cheaply Xeroxed posters on random streets, it's a "real campaign" by people in a "mainstream/institutional" context done ona city wide scale. In "the whitest city in America" no less! "It's kinda a big deal" in Duluth and moreso on a larger scale level because of the dialogue it sparks.

    So it's amazing to me that people in a more mainatream/institutional context are 1) aware of white privilege and 2) thinks its enough of an issue to begin this campaign. It's sponsored in part by the freaking mayors office!
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  9. #39
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Which one garners the best response? Are armenians or spaniards non-white in the US? :/
    The one that garners the best response is when I say I am a black Korean Jew with a smile and a wink

    Italian is the best
    Then Spanish
    Then central American (worst)

    If we're including what I am NOT:

    "European"
    "Mediterranean"
    Greek
    Iranian
    Armenian
    "Arab"

    Also, I recently got Russian for the first time (wtf???)

    In the US "Spanish" is often seen as code for "upper class" Mexicans because of proximity. Armenians are lumped under "middle eastern"

    Also, when I was working for one contractor I was kept on the job before another guy who was a harder worker and I think my being "whiter" than him was a factor (my boss was one of those redneck Republican bigots).
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Idiotic campaign. In-group favoritism is a trait homo sapiens evolved and can't be eliminated with a simple campaign like this. This campaign doesn't even address the heart of the issue, it only addresses a symptom.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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