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  1. #11
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    I think the some of the replies to this highlight the issue. I don't think the point of the ads is to blame white people or say there are inferior. The point is to highlight that whiteness has certain privileges attached to it.

    I understand that a not all white people are racist and that they were born into the system like everyone else but I don't think that makes it wrong to point out that the system exists. And of course white people expwrience things like poverty and discination. You don't need to feel guilt about being white or even light skinwd but you should be aware of certain issues.

    I'm Biracial so it makes me angry when people blames everything on white people
    Because I know that my family member and other white friends are not racists or the cause of racism. However that soean't change the fact that in most situations I've experinxed "whiteness" is considered the norm. Also historically white people have had an elevated status and some of that is perpetuates in modern society. Our country has been officially desegregated since 1964. Anti-miscegination laws were made unconstitutional in 1967 (when Obama was 6. His parents marriage would have been illegal in 16 states). That not very distant history.

    I'm thinking now of Black hair. Many people chemically alter their hair to be straight or buy very expensive weave. I think the motivation is to fit in with the majority culture white is white. There is an underlying sense that Afro hair (braids, twists,locs) is less professional. Less sexually appealing. Less put together. Or also the use of skin bleaching creams. Or the freaksanomics chapter on how it is a disadvantage To have a very "black name".

    I don't think these ads are about tearing down white people. There about recognizing that bias exists in society generally in white people's favor in the united states. If you ignore biases and assume a level playing field you can only conclude that certain groups aren't succeeding because they don't want to (which is sort of an undercurrent in certain extreme right Wing groups. The equally absurd extreme counterpoint being the idea of "white devil"/ "the man keeping us down".

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Gauche presentation, and untrue for the majority of white people. The page serves no known purpose. What's amazing? Please, I'm dying to know.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    My favorite speaker on the subject:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc

    It isn't so much that I tolerate racism of any sort.. but there's a certain degree of understanding that minorities are still playing catch-up. The campaign itself is blunt--but not entirely wrong.

    It takes it too far by assuming that we should be ashamed of being white, and ashamed of how we act.. It is in human nature to be a bit racist, and I'm not going to be chained to the ground in guilt over people's faults that I didn't even know in my lifetime. It isn't a matter of "is it fair to be born white?" or whatever question it was that was posted.. It isn't even about that. To focus on white skin is to also feed the racism. I understand what the message of the campaign is trying to do, but they're ironically helping the machine by doing it.
    I dont buy that at all, campaigns like this can have the effect of ensuring minorities do not "catch up" because they can breed a "why bother?" or resentment instead of a "can do" mentality, Christ Rock does a great act on this about electing a black president and how he hopes that it might stop the "look, see, you could do that" sort of conversation black people have with their children, comparing it to the fact that no white parent says to their children "you could be president son" because the response would be "yeah, I know, I know that, I've always known".

    To be truthful what's missing is a succeed despite the odds message, I liked Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey despite not believing in either black nationalism, reparations, back to Africa or any of the keynotes of their messages because they did not expect anything from racists or supposed racists and instead tried to incalcate a "can do" and independence from mindset.

    I think of all this while actually being a "minority", I'm a roman catholic in so called "protestant ulster", which a lot of mentalists still believe is or should be a "protestant state for a protestant people", as ill defined as that actually is itself. Do I want campaigns trying to lay a guilt trip on random protestants because of historical legacies? No, sure do not. It only alienates and stokes ancient hatreds, keeps the sort of sectarianism which says being protestant or not a protestant is the most important thing about someone alive and kicking, results in otherwise non-sectarian people saying things which appear sectarian and suspecting that the victims of sectarianism had it coming in some shape or form rather than actually were victims in the first place.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I think the some of the replies to this highlight the issue. I don't think the point of the ads is to blame white people or say there are inferior. The point is to highlight that whiteness has certain privileges attached to it.

    I understand that a not all white people are racist and that they were born into the system like everyone else but I don't think that makes it wrong to point out that the system exists. And of course white people expwrience things like poverty and discination. You don't need to feel guilt about being white or even light skinwd but you should be aware of certain issues.

    I'm Biracial so it makes me angry when people blames everything on white people
    Because I know that my family member and other white friends are not racists or the cause of racism. However that soean't change the fact that in most situations I've experinxed "whiteness" is considered the norm. Also historically white people have had an elevated status and some of that is perpetuates in modern society. Our country has been officially desegregated since 1964. Anti-miscegination laws were made unconstitutional in 1967 (when Obama was 6. His parents marriage would have been illegal in 16 states). That not very distant history.

    I'm thinking now of Black hair. Many people chemically alter their hair to be straight or buy very expensive weave. I think the motivation is to fit in with the majority culture white is white. There is an underlying sense that Afro hair (braids, twists,locs) is less professional. Less sexually appealing. Less put together. Or also the use of skin bleaching creams. Or the freaksanomics chapter on how it is a disadvantage To have a very "black name".

    I don't think these ads are about tearing down white people. There about recognizing that bias exists in society generally in white people's favor in the united states. If you ignore biases and assume a level playing field you can only conclude that certain groups aren't succeeding because they don't want to (which is sort of an undercurrent in certain extreme right Wing groups. The equally absurd extreme counterpoint being the idea of "white devil"/ "the man keeping us down".
    For how long are you going to be able to maintain the myth of white privilege though? The majority of white people are not privileged and so long as critical thinking focuses on the ethnicity of privileged people instead of privilege per se it will be seriously wide of the mark.

    You mention being of mixed race, well I would suggest that everyone is of mixed race, the only reason I think it is important to answer census or equality information gathering sections of forms with caucasion (seplling) or white european or white irish is because I know the information is important to people who are assessing the populations of people on the basis of this criteria which are doing certain things, like going to university.

    There is a lot of inter-"white" racism, Hitler's Aryanism for instance in its racial science had, unbeknownst to a hell of a lot of people, as the lowest species known to man the "celt", that's a lesser "breed" of subhuman than any of the groups they are remembered for hating like Jews, Slavs or even Africans (most africans did not register on Nazi or Fascist radars at the time, being largely abscent from Europe, Frano employed Moorish mercenaries and Mussolini's campaign in abbysinia/ethiopia wasnt even ethnically motivated), the "celts" were of Irish or Scotch descent but generally just any white population which was disliked or despised.

    Tim Pat Coogan's book on the IRA records that when the IRA had any contact with Nazi Germany the response was generally that they thought it was a good thing that the Irish were prepared to "die for ireland" and they should go on doing so and that the neutrality of the Irish government under Devalera was a sign of cowardice (despite that Dev went on to send his condolences to Germany upon the report of Hitler's death).

  5. #15
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    I like the part where the poster claims that white people don't experience racism.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'd just say that I've seen as bad you know.

    The students union in Britain and Ireland ran campaigns about homosexuality on the statistical error that one in five people was a homosexual encouraging groups of students of the number or greater to examine themselves for the "closeted" or "shamed" homosexual in their midst. Then after that there was a pretty vociferous campaign advising people that if they did not know anyone who was homosexual they were "part of the problem".

    Its stuff like that which makes me wonder how they are meant to do any good.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    I like the part where the poster claims that white people don't experience racism.
    I like the part where - well, I like all bizarre pages of no consequence packed with dozens of white lies and outright lies, including this one.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    LOL @ the replies so far.

    Here's an interesting study for you. Whites Believe They Are Victims of Racism More Often Than Blacks.

    What a fucking crock of shit. White whining.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    LOL @ the replies so far.

    Here's an interesting study for you. Whites Believe They Are Victims of Racism More Often Than Blacks.

    What a fucking crock of shit. White whining.
    "Whites see racial equality as a zero sum game, in which gains for one group mean losses for the other."

    Duh. That's Affirmative Action all over the place.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #20
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    "Whites see racial equality as a zero sum game, in which gains for one group mean losses for the other."

    Duh. That's Affirmative Action all over the place.
    I just discovered I am not white. Which beats the hell out of me because my skin pigmentation has not changed, neither has my culture, heritage or anything else.

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