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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Does anyone know the difference in the legal ramifications when an assault is considered a hate crime?

    There seems to be a larger context of a lack of support for this kid. I wonder if there is a Neo-Nazi presence in the police department. There are some police that are horrid bullies, so I could see it as entirely possible. It is upsetting that 20 people just stood there and watched, but that can be just the fear of also being horribly assaulted. What makes me downright sick is that this kid had to call a cab to get to the hospital. No one helped him get a ride? I realize most were probably drunk at the party, but no one called a friend, and then rode with him to the hospital to make sure he got there alright?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #12
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    It is upsetting that 20 people just stood there and watched, but that can be just the fear of also being horribly assaulted. What makes me downright sick is that this kid had to call a cab to get to the hospital. No one helped him get a ride? I realize most were probably drunk at the party, but no one called a friend, and then rode with him to the hospital to make sure he got there alright?
    Bystander effect.

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Does anyone know the difference in the legal ramifications when an assault is considered a hate crime?

    There seems to be a larger context of a lack of support for this kid. I wonder if there is a Neo-Nazi presence in the police department. There are some police that are horrid bullies, so I could see it as entirely possible. It is upsetting that 20 people just stood there and watched, but that can be just the fear of also being horribly assaulted. What makes me downright sick is that this kid had to call a cab to get to the hospital. No one helped him get a ride? I realize most were probably drunk at the party, but no one called a friend, and then rode with him to the hospital to make sure he got there alright?
    East Lansing borders Howell, which is known for its KKK presence.

    The fear has always been there when it comes to that region. I remember some white kids in my year (douchebag types) played a cruel joke on one of their black "friends." They told him to meet them at some friend of a friend's house in Howell, and when he got there they all jumped out at him dressed as KKK. Well, apparently they scared him really bad because he freaked out, drove off, and didn't contact them again that day nor tell them why he didn't show up, even when they asked.

    Anyway, they felt bad about it and apologized. Guess they forgot how "real" it can be for POCs because the attitude where we lived (if you were a little white kid) was basically, "ha, look at those KKK over in Howell. How archaic and funny!"

    Now they almost kilt them a Jew!
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  4. #14
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    It's probably a hate crime but more importantly it's a crime crime.

    My guess is that the police are tired of 'hate crime' being a thing due to inverse ramifications. Basically it steals the spotlight from similar crimes that don't involve potential bigotry (but still involve a lot of hate - you don't do this to somebody to show you like them)

    Point being, if some guys did this exact same thing without the KKK or Nazi overtones, but assaulted the kid in the same way, what are we going to call it? A fondness crime? Is it somehow less severe when you bash someone's head in with a pipe but make sure to do it in a politically correct manner?

  5. #15
    Yup
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Does anyone know the difference in the legal ramifications when an assault is considered a hate crime?

    There seems to be a larger context of a lack of support for this kid. I wonder if there is a Neo-Nazi presence in the police department. There are some police that are horrid bullies, so I could see it as entirely possible. It is upsetting that 20 people just stood there and watched, but that can be just the fear of also being horribly assaulted. What makes me downright sick is that this kid had to call a cab to get to the hospital. No one helped him get a ride? I realize most were probably drunk at the party, but no one called a friend, and then rode with him to the hospital to make sure he got there alright?
    it would not surprise me.


    they(kkk/neo nazis) are trying to work their way into positions like that and get any experience they can in the military..supposedly to "help their kind" in the race war. they encourage their recruits to enlist and get ahead so they can bash others down. they do this by climbing the ranks civilian and military or any other place where they can have influence ensure jobs leave to no one else but" those they like them." my boyfriend crossed paths with some those kinds of people recently.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee

  6. #16
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    Gross.


    I've always felt a sense of duty in the presence of a fight, the whole 'never kick a man when he's down' thing some assailants simply do not seem to possess.

  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Bystander effect.
    Yeah I thought the same, but then realised having never been in such a situation...would I act? Or would I just be another bystander?

    That question has permeated a lot of my thoughts for quite some time...any time something reprehensible like this happens.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #18
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Yeah I thought the same, but then realised having never been in such a situation...would I act? Or would I just be another bystander?

    That question has permeated a lot of my thoughts for quite some time...any time something reprehensible like this happens.
    I doubt I would have the courage to jump in and attempt to physically stop it because I don't have the physical skill to succeed, but quietly leaving and calling for help would be pretty easy and low risk for anyone. Standing and watching would be quite sickening, although some may have been in shock?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I doubt I would have the courage to jump in and attempt to physically stop it because I don't have the physical skill to succeed, but quietly leaving and calling for help would be pretty easy and low risk for anyone. Standing and watching would be quite sickening, although some may have been in shock?
    Yeah it could have been shock, or support, or indifference or any other number of potential reasons.

    Shock is pretty bad though, ive been caught in the middle of some violent events before and it is a dangerous paralysis to a self.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Yeah it could have been shock, or support, or indifference or any other number of potential reasons.

    Shock is pretty bad though, ive been caught in the middle of some violent events before and it is a dangerous paralysis to a self.
    I've never been paralysed but I've often thought about my own safety or those immediately around me who I feel obliged to try and keep safe first.

    Basically because while you're safe you can perhaps help, in ways some people dont expect, like giving a damn good description to cops and following it up through the courts and keeping any law enforcement which follows it up honest, ie if they are corrupt or just lazy keeping on the case, trying to find out what's happening and not letting it drop.

    Or you could phone an ambulance or provide first aid or a bunch of things like that.

    This case sounds a bit odd though, I'd be interested to see how it all pans out, the guy in question could have instigated a battle or something, come off the worst and made a report to the police in the aftermath. Who knows? Its a tabloid and raving right wing one at that.

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