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  1. #101
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If we don't have a popular vote would should at the very least remove the winner-take-all allotment of state votes and allow the candidates to win each electoral vote individually, that way the vote wouldn't solely be left to people in so-called swing states.
    While that falls within the range of the sort of reasonable compromise I alluded to, its extremely unlikely to happen: not only would it take a Constitutional Amendment to mandate it, but the Democratic party would oppose it (Democratic voters tend to congregate into densely packed clusters, which create natural 'vote sinks' to the advantage of the Republican party).

  2. #102
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    While that falls within the range of the sort of reasonable compromise I alluded to, its extremely unlikely to happen: not only would it take a Constitutional Amendment to mandate it, but the Democratic party would oppose it (Democratic voters tend to congregate into densely packed clusters, which create natural 'vote sinks' to the advantage of the Republican party).
    Actually, I think the math hurts Republicans since this would remove the two votes for senators. All but one of the states with only one district are red, and most of the others with only a few districts are red. Wyoming, North Dakota, etc... would go from three votes to one. Likewise, there are some significant Democratic pockets in strongly red states that never count because of the winner-take all system.

    Still, if it hurt the Republicans we'd be back to the same problem anyhow. The only way it could be passed is in the implausible scenario that both parties were equally convinced they had something to gain out of it.
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  3. #103
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Actually, I think the math hurts Republicans since this would remove the two votes for senators. All but one of the states with only one district are red, and most of the others with only a few districts are red. Wyoming, North Dakota, etc... would go from three votes to one. Likewise, there are some significant Democratic pockets in strongly red states that never count because of the winner-take all system.

    Still, if it hurt the Republicans we'd be back to the same problem anyhow. The only way it could be passed is in the implausible scenario that both parties were equally convinced they had something to gain out of it.
    Ah, I misundertood your position; I thought you were advocating retaining the two electoral votes from the Senate districts, while requiring that the electoral votes derived from House districts be awarded on a district by district basis. Your method would, of course, be contrary to my position (though I think that the lost Senate districts would be more or less compensated by a district by district House-based allocation, in terms of current party advantage as opposed to state advantage).

  4. #104
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Why do Ron Paul supporters even bother with the Republican party anymore? The (exclusive) Republican party clearly doesn't want them.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #105
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    Let's shift the focus to the DNC for a moment...

    From CNN:

    CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs ...

    (CNN) -- Anyone watching the Democratic National Convention on Tuesday night heard the number 4.5 million several times.

    "Despite incredible odds and united Republican opposition, our president took action, and now we've seen 4.5 million new jobs," San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, the party's keynote speaker, said.

    Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who served as President Barack Obama's chief of staff, and Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, who followed Obama's November rival Mitt Romney as governor of Massachusetts, both cited the same number.

    It's a big-sounding number, given the still-sputtering job market. So we're giving it a close eyeballing.

    The facts:

    The number Castro cites is an accurate description of the growth of private-sector jobs since January 2010, when the long, steep slide in employment finally hit bottom. But while a total of 4.5 million jobs sounds great, it's not the whole picture.

    Nonfarm private payrolls hit a post-recession low of 106.8 million that month, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The figure currently stands at 111.3 million as of July.

    While that is indeed a gain of 4.5 million, it's only a net gain of 300,000 over the course of the Obama administration to date. The private jobs figure stood at 111 million in January 2009, the month Obama took office.

    And total nonfarm payrolls, including government workers, are down from 133.6 million workers at the beginning of 2009 to 133.2 million in July 2012. There's been a net loss of nearly 1 million public-sector jobs since Obama took office, despite a surge in temporary hiring for the 2010 census.

    Meanwhile, the jobs that have come back aren't the same ones that were lost.

    According to a study released last week by the liberal-leaning National Employment Law Project, low-wage fields such as retail sales and food service are adding jobs nearly three times as fast as higher-paid occupations.

    Conclusion:

    The figure of 4.5 million jobs is accurate if you look at the most favorable period and category for the administration. But overall, there are still fewer people working now than when Obama took office at the height of the recession.

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