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  1. #91
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Heh, just as I complain about creeping despotic democracy within the republican party Al Gore goes and takes democracy to a whole new catastrophic level. As much as I complain about some Republicans the Democrats are just hopeless.

    http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news...ctoral-college
    I'd be glad to see the system changed. Why do you think it would be catastrophic? Al Gore is a pretty intelligent dude and at least right here, I don't think he said anything scandalous, or anything that isn't common knowledge.
    ( . )( . )

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Yeah. I'll bet they said that.
    Of course there are some black people that vote republican. Herman Cain(sp?) obviously does. Doesn't mean there are enough to call it 1%(and they wonder why no one pays them any attention other than the camera focus at republican conventions. (We have black people too gaiz!)) . I watched most of the middle video, but my internet is being really crappy, so I am unable to load them faster than dial-up and will watch another them later. And yeah, black people hold up the democratic party, but so what? I have yet to vote and have been able for a time. My vote doesn't matter no matter which way I go with it. Either way, South Carolina is red. @Beefeater may not like the idea, but the popular vote might be the way to go for pres.
    Dirt Farmer

  3. #93
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    If we don't have a popular vote would should at the very least remove the winner-take-all allotment of state votes and allow the candidates to win each electoral vote individually, that way the vote wouldn't solely be left to people in so-called swing states.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #94
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Beefeater, I'm curious what your argument is, since you seem to think a popular vote is such a bad idea that it's ridiculous on its face. I can't understand why it's not a no-brainer.
    I don't know about Beefeater, but my argument is that the current system protects the interests of smaller states, and thus the integrity of (what little actually remains of) the federal system, instead of enabling larger states to completely dominate the citizens of smaller states at the federal level. This is even more important now than it was historically, in light of the effective nullification of the 10th Amendment and the rise of the 'imperial Presidency'. Even with the Electoral College, its still more than possible for Presidential candidates to win despite being rejected by majorities of the citizens within most states, so it seems a reasonable compromise to me, much along the lines of the bicameral legislature.

  5. #95
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I don't know about Beefeater, but my argument is that the current system protects the interests of smaller states...
    But shouldn't the individual come above the state they happened to be raised in? The thesis that small states should have more pull is a form of the "every individual should have a voice" argument, right? And, additionally, is a Wyoming citizen more important than a New York citizen?
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #96
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    But shouldn't the individual come above the state they happened to be raised in? The thesis that small states should have more pull is a form of the "every individual should have a voice" argument, right? And, additionally, is a Wyoming citizen more important than a New York citizen?
    Federalism is a means of protecting individuals, as well as the sub-national communities of interests they are a part of, from domination by outside interests while allowing for all parties the benifits of collective actions that can only be made possible through membership in a larger national entity. These two desired goals are usually in opposition to each other, and certain trade-offs have to be made in order to balance these goals over time. The same principle applies sub-nationally, with citizens of larger states (theoretically) choosing the benifits of population density at the expense of the relative wieght of their democratic voice.

  7. #97
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I'm not categorically opposed to federal income tax, though I don't agree with how all the revenues are spent. I have at times, though, entertained the idea of eliminating all taxes except for state income tax. The federal government would tax the states, who would then pay a share of taxes internally collected on the basis of some progressive formula. Each state might be assessed a different amount/percentage, based upon average personal wealth and income, business infrastructure, internal problems needing addressed, etc.
    That's not new. That's how things were prior to the introduction of the federal income tax.
    You lose.

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  8. #98
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If we don't have a popular vote would should at the very least remove the winner-take-all allotment of state votes and allow the candidates to win each electoral vote individually, that way the vote wouldn't solely be left to people in so-called swing states.
    Technically, states are free to alot their electoral votes however they choose.
    You lose.

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  9. #99
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Technically, states are free to alot their electoral votes however they choose.
    If removing means federally mandating how the states do it, then so be it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #100

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