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  1. #41
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    He is part of a political movement so to give his behaviour a psychiatric interpretation misses the point.

    There is also another political movement at the other end of the political spectrum and it would be an equal mistake to give them a psychiatric interpretation.

    What is important is to defeat these violent anti-democratic movements politically. So we need to understand them politically.
    I think it's far more dangerous to make psychiatric assessments based on political motivations...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In a bizarre and sick fashion I see this as an attempt of a pretty isolated and singular individual to reach out and make a connection, he has asked to be able to write to other "like minded people" and clearly from the hatching of his plan all the way through he has imagined that he was part of a wider covert movement or working for and related to an abstraction to which he could belong and be prepared to sacrifice for, everything but particularly others.
    .
    Which part of that argues in favour of his sanity?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I think it's far more dangerous to make psychiatric assessments based on political motivations...

    Which part of that argues in favour of his sanity?
    That is sane in so far as it is something that anyone and everyone engages in from time to time, its not pathological, there are lots of imagined communities, scenes, group affiliations, they are not and shouldnt be substitutes for actual social interaction and if people use them as a substitute and for long enough they become alternatives and make their original isolated state worse but still that a psychological disorder or insanity.

    In the strict psychiatric sense he does not have leasons on the brain, he does not have a brain injury, he does not have an organic cause such as hormonal imbalance, biochemical imbalance or anything of that sort.

  3. #43
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    its not pathological,
    I beg to differ.

    In the strict psychiatric sense he does not have leasons on the brain, he does not have a brain injury, he does not have an organic cause such as hormonal imbalance, biochemical imbalance or anything of that sort.
    Since when did psychiatrists limit themselves to organic causes of mental illness?

    Dude has NPD, at the very least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I beg to differ.
    OK and why should I consider your opinion valid?

    Since when did psychiatrists limit themselves to organic causes of mental illness?

    Dude has NPD, at the very least.
    Hmm, since always. Its the difference between psychiatry and psychology as disciplines, you know that right?

    I'm not sure that he has NPD, would you really want to substitute pathologies for politics? I know I've heard US conservatives say that American liberalism is a disease or mental disorder before now but I never liked those sorts of labelling.

  5. #45
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    OK and why should I consider your opinion valid?
    Self-evidently, the dude's delusions were pathological. Are you really struggling to see that?

    Hmm, since always. Its the difference between psychiatry and psychology as disciplines, you know that right?
    Psychiatric disorders include clinical syndromes, developmental disorders and personality disorders. You knew that right? If a person suffers from delusions, they are psychotic, iow, insane.

    I'm not sure that he has NPD, would you really want to substitute pathologies for politics?.
    I was making a political argument in response to Victor's post. I just can't be bothered to dot the i's for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Self-evidently, the dude's delusions were pathological. Are you really struggling to see that?

    Psychiatric disorders include clinical syndromes, developmental disorders and personality disorders. You knew that right? If a person suffers from delusions, they are psychotic, iow, insane.

    I was making a politic argument in response to Victor's post. I just can't be bothered to dot the is for you.
    I sort of dont know how to respond to this, I mean the courts and professionals have a basis for validating their opinions because they are grounded in evidence based diagnostic practices but your opinion that its self-evident, without any other qualification, is sufficient grounds to undermine their authority? Really?

  7. #47
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I sort of dont know how to respond to this, I mean the courts and professionals have a basis for validating their opinions because they are grounded in evidence based diagnostic practices but your opinion that its self-evident, without any other qualification, is sufficient grounds to undermine their authority? Really?
    What about the first but highly unpopular psychological assessment?

  8. #48
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I sort of dont know how to respond to this, I mean the courts and professionals have a basis for validating their opinions because they are grounded in evidence based diagnostic practices but your opinion that its self-evident, without any other qualification, is sufficient grounds to undermine their authority? Really?
    On what basis do you establish your trust in authority?

    I mean,
    The prosecution thought he was insane.
    His own lawyer thought he was insane.
    A bunch of psychiatrists labelled him insane.
    The fact that he wanted the "sane terrorist" verdict, is yet more evidence of his insanity. (A merely evil human being would want the chance of eventual release offered by diminished responsibility.)

    Others disagreed. “This is completely incomprehensible,” said Per Sandberg, the deputy leader of the populist Progress Party, an opposition group which demands tougher sentences. “How can someone who has planned this for such a long time… be considered insane?” he said.

    Mr Sandberg, who heads parliament’s justice committee, called for a wider evaluation of Breivik’s mental status.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/interna...sane-1-1988589

    It's incomprehensible, therefore, it can't be true!

    I don't think mixing up what punishment he "deserved" with the objective facts about his mental health, is helpful for anyone. Except, I dunno, some guy seeking re-election, maybe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #49
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I think solitary is fucked up especially for 22 years. If he isn't insane now he will be. I think it'd be less cruel to sentence him to death. Btw how do you only get 22 years for killing 77?

    Edit: read thread.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #50
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    In other news, whenever I see a picture of Breivik, reminds me of MacGuffin.
    Creeps me teh fuck out.
    Some major "separated at birth" material to plunder there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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