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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Or possibly forensic investigators to try to replicate trajectory of attacks. The policeman on the horse will also be able to provide eye-witness evidence and potentially display puncture wounds on boots or articles of clothing.
    That goes to results, not intent.

  2. #62
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    That goes to results, not intent.
    Results can prove intent. Don't know too many animals that bite by accident.

  3. #63
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I once adopted a puppy from an animal rescue facility. He was the sweetest dog, never had problems with other animals or humans. One day I was working on the side of the house when he ran out front while the gate was open. It just happened my neighbor was walking to the mailbox when he darted straight for her and bit her on the arm. He didn't bite and hold, he bit her then kinda jumped off...

    This lady has a history with my animals. Her family is in constant rotation of dogs, it seems they get a new one every year, usually small breeds like Chihuahuas. They yap at my dogs constantly, and when my dogs yap back I've seen her kick the fence at them. When I was young my mom caught her throwing rocks at my Chinese pug.

    After the incident, her own 18 year old son even said it was likely because she antagonized him at the fence.

    So I don't know, we let the pound put him down. I guess the whole incident somewhat weighs heavy on my heart.
    I am so sorry to hear this, and it would be incredibly difficult to live next door to such a person, and I can see that you were really backed into a corner yourself. The situation only would have escalated and you did not have control over the adoption process at the pound. I'm sure you hoped there would be a home available that would work more easily for the dog.

    When people act so hysterical about the dangers of animals like that neighbor, it really annoys me. When the American Bull Terrier bit me, I had to go to the ER, and even grossed out a few people in the waiting area from the amount of blood pouring down my leg, and I walked with a cane for several months, but would never dream of having the animal put down. It should be in their record so that a family with hyperactive children and several dogs does not adopt her. It was years ago, but she should go to a hermit in the mountains like us. I would have adopted her at the time if I had the facilities. The same could be said for the dog in the OP. As far as pitbulls in general are concerned - dog aggression can be an issue, but it doesn't translate over to people aggression. Our pitbull has occasionally had dog aggression and we keep him and our other male dog separate just to be safe after we had to break up a fight between them in our house. My husband can even put his fingers into the pitbull's mouth to release his grip when fighting - that is how averse the dog is to human aggression. He can't bite a person. The dog who bit me was attempting to bite the dog and got my knee by accident.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Results can prove intent. Don't know too many animals that bite by accident.
    "Can" is the key word. They are not dispositive as a rule.


    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    The dog who bit me was attempting to bite the dog and got my knee by accident.

    See?

  5. #65
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Results can prove intent. Don't know too many animals that bite by accident.
    They all bite by accident technically because they do not have the frontal lobe mechanism to act out of choice as a human does. Put any animal in a situation that triggers instinct and guess what? Whatever instinct they have is triggered.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #66
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    The dog who bit me was attempting to bite the dog and got my knee by accident.
    How do you know this for certain?

  7. #67
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    They all bite by accident technically because they do not have the frontal lobe mechanism to act out of choice as a human does. Put any animal in a situation that triggers instinct and guess what? Whatever instinct they have is triggered.
    Dogs do have frontal lobe mechanisms.

  8. #68
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Dogs do have frontal lobe mechanisms.
    Yes, but even in humans that part of the brain is not fully functioning until into their twenties. What is a child guilty of who shoots their younger sibling when they come across a gun and they feel mad because the younger sibling won't share their toy? That is the reason that consent is considered different for children than for adults on all serious issues. The example of the angry child is the closest parallel I can think of for animal motivation.

    The size of the decision and emotional regulation center of animal brains is smaller. If they are proven to have similar capacities in this way, then they should be treated as equivalent to humans in terms of privilege as well as responsibility. Animal control would have a lot to answer for. When a dog bites a person or an animal it is not the same as a serial killer or even someone shooting a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    How do you know this for certain?
    The dog I was handling had a neck that was about knee level and he was standing just in back of me until she came around the corner behind us when he quickly backed away and my knee ended up between them. He was also a really stinky doggy who had been rubbing on my knees all afternoon, and so I'm sure I smelled like him. After having bit me her attention was directed towards him and she moved towards him as the handler pulled her back. I had been watching her all afternoon and was worried about her. It was a high-stress environment in an empty room in the mall with lots of dogs. She had been becoming anxious and they had her handler take her out into the hall. I had not seen them come back in.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #69
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Yes, but even in humans that part of the brain is not fully functioning until into their twenties. What is a child guilty of who shoots their younger sibling when they come across a gun and they feel mad because the younger sibling won't share their toy? That is the reason that consent is considered different for children than for adults on all serious issues. The size of the decision and emotional regulation center of animal brains is smaller. If they are proven to have similar capacities in this way, then they should be treated as equivalent to humans in terms of privilege as well as responsibility. Animal control would have a lot to answer for. When a dog bites a person or an animal it is not the same as a serial killer or even someone shooting a gun.
    Actually, most often when someone underage murders or attempts to murder with intent, their case gets escalated to adult court.

  10. #70
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Actually, most often when someone underage murders or attempts to murder with intent, their case gets escalated to adult court.
    Besides the fact that there is science that stands against that, so far we are not talking about fatal dog attacks, right? The case about the children with guns happened in Wyoming where a little boy around age 6 shot his 3-year-old sister and caused her disabilities. He did not go to prison over it or adult court.

    It is a mistake to compare a 15-year-old who commits brutal murder to a dog that bites someone. A better comparison would be children who bite someone and causes a wound - which from what I understand, does happen without legal recourse. It is good that children are only held to the level of responsibility for which they are wired. Animals should be as well.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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