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  1. #21
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    In the end, if you don't save the mother, the child is lost.

    I'm not sure why it is even an argument in the first place.. I never have understood it. I never, ever, ever found this topic to be any shade of gray. Always very black and white for me, and always will be. You save lives, and as many as you can. The semantics will work themselves out as they go.
    Yeah well put. Not a grey area to me either.

  2. #22
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    So they killed the mother (or rather, allowed her to die), along with the unborn child they were claiming to be saving from chemo?

    This is so diabolically stupid, I can't even comprehend it fully.
    At first this was what came to mind, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    mind you, I'm not a doctor and leukemia is not my area of research, but if she died 3 weeks after diagnosis I really doubt chemo would have done anything other than make her even more miserable, so it might not even have been a net negative result overall. The reasoning behind the decision is still reprehensible, though.

    edit: looking again, she died a few days after being allowed to start chemo, so the chemo may even have caused her death, as often happens, unfortunately. still, that's not the point.
    Then this also came to mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It can just as easily be said that chemo may have sped up her death, but there's no way of knowing. In the end, if you don't save the mother, the child is lost.

    I'm not sure why it is even an argument in the first place.. I never have understood it. I never, ever, ever found this topic to be any shade of gray. Always very black and white for me, and always will be. You save lives, and as many as you can. The semantics will work themselves out as they go.
    And ultimately this.

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  3. #23
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Woman dies in Irish hospital because they refused to terminate her failing pregnancy: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...326575203.html

    Gettin tired of hearing about these unnecessary deaths. Also, I did not know Ireland had such laws.
    That's just arcane thinking. Srsly. I wonder if the cremation was premature though, for autopsy purposes?
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Who knew pro-choice people give a shit about humans dying?

    I guess these people just weren't weak and helpless enough for them not to care.
    I don't believe blastocysts have the status of a being.

    Even in these particular cases mentioned where the abortion would have been late term, denying it often ends up in death of both the mother and fetus. What principle is being served here?

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I don't believe blastocysts have the status of a being.

    Even in these particular cases mentioned where the abortion would have been late term, denying it often ends up in death of both the mother and fetus. What principle is being served here?
    I'm making a general statement to show the inherent hypocrisy of people who want to promote this and similar stories for the pro-choice cause.

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  6. #26
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    mind you, I'm not a doctor and leukemia is not my area of research, but if she died 3 weeks after diagnosis I really doubt chemo would have done anything other than make her even more miserable, so it might not even have been a net negative result overall. The reasoning behind the decision is still reprehensible, though.

    edit: looking again, she died a few days after being allowed to start chemo, so the chemo may even have caused her death, as often happens, unfortunately. still, that's not the point.
    Yes. Plus there is the whole first 5 weeks of your pregnancy when you don't even know you are pregnant.....so she was really only denied for a few weeks, as the article says. I doubt 3 weeks would have made a difference.

    So sensationalized.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Yeah.

    I understand them.

    Not saying I agree, but to them, it makes sense.

    Someday.
    I can understand that they were being illogical. I don't think this was a matter of difference of opinion/belief. As I understand, people believe that abortion is wrong because they see a fertilized egg as a living human and that killing it would be wrong. Obviously, letting the mother die of cancer would be just as well killing the fetus. So the fetus is dead either way. Logically, all you have left is whether or not to save the mother (or attempt to).

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    What the hell do they mean "if she was raped'? Of course she was raped. She's 10. She's not capable of consent. Another example of lives forever altered or diminished because of someone else's purist ideology trumping (un)common sense and decency.
    She could have hooked up with another little kid.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    This is nothing compared to the rape animals on the fast food list live with.
    Non-human animals are usually seen as less important than humans, and their suffering of lesser consequence/importance. I believe this as well. I'd rather have a chicken suffer than a human suffer for sure. I think that a higher level of consciousness makes humans more cognizant of suffering.

    Sure, I completely agree that animals that are farmed for food are being abused in massive numbers every day. But IMO if I'm going to spend time and energy feeling sorry for something, or perhaps even trying to change things, I'd focus on the large number of humans that are suffering.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think at least a portion of my mentality about pregnancy being a disease and a scary, scary disorder is from my fear of being stuck in a situation like this. The military doesn't exactly carry liberal views about pregnancy.. They treat women like contagious weaklings the instant they become pregnant, and they might as well tell them they aren't really patriotic while they're at it. There's a lot of subtle guilt trips thrown their way when they're with child. And you'd be surprised how little decision-making-abilities the mother gets to have when in the military. Everyone has a right to decide what happens and how the mother is treated and gets treated except the mother.
    To those who don't seem to respect pregnant women in the military, I'd say to them: Where do you think your soldiers come from? Every single one of you originated from within your mother's womb to be here today.

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