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  1. #61
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You are impossible.
    I assure you I'm entirely possible.
    I could regale you with anecdotes to "prove" my point, but some people are just too invested in believing what they want to believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #62
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I would never presume to know what goes on in the heads of my male colleagues fellow forum members. NFI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I could regale you with anecdotes to "prove" my point, but some people are just too invested in believing what they want to believe.
    Example of where you just did that here.

    Anecdotes are relatively easy to find to support anything. Do you have statistics to back up the statements about the macho culture and high level of harassment as compared to other professions?

    Edit: I'm not trying to invalidate your experiences. It's just that you seem to have so many comments related to these types of topics. Maybe you have had just really bad experiences with men as compared to the average.

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  3. #63
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Example of where you just did that here.
    Nope. You've already called me "absurd". And insulted / belittled me at least 3 times in this thread. That's a concrete indication of your investment.

    Anecdotes are relatively easy to find to support anything. Do you have statistics to back up the statements about the macho culture and high level of harassment as compared to other professions?
    I said "I'd venture", not "I'm certain". Perhaps you should pay closer attention.
    This thread is attempting to draw out reasons for a lack of female representation. For some reason you just want to dismiss out of hand any suggestion that it could be that it's a macho environment. Even after women SPECIFICALLY state this is a factor in putting them off.
    Why so dogmatic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #64
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Girls are told they aren't good at technical things. Thinking it is within your capability is the first step to pursuing an interest.

    I'm in college now and I know some girls who are interested in computer science but feel off about it for some reason that they can't quite pin point.
    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    There isn't the same stigma against "smart women" in East Asia as far as science and math goes. All children are driven to be exceptional. It's shameful to be dumb. "Math is hard :cute giggle:" doesn't fly for girls. In my highschool about equal numbers of boys and girls took advanced math and science classes. And East Asia is supposedly more oatriarchal and oppressive to women.
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...e-bright-girls

    ^I don't know if what is described in the article is true, I don't relate, but like @INA, went to a girl's school, which seems to have an insulating effect on self-esteem. Dunno.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #65
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Nope. You've already called me "absurd". And insulted / belittled me at least 3 times in this thread. That's a concrete indication of your investment.
    If it's coming across that way at all, I apologize. This might be a cultural difference. I don't know. I guess I'm trying to communicate to you in the way you communicate to others. I don't think it is working.

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  6. #66
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    If it's coming across that way at all, I apologize. This might be a cultural difference. I don't know. I guess I'm trying to communicate to you in the way you communicate to others. I don't think it is working.
    Then I guess you failed.
    Maybe just give your own honest opinions/experiences instead of "trying" to impersonate me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #67
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Maybe just give your own honest opinions/experiences
    That doesn't seem to work either. It's what I naturally do.

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  8. #68
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I've been working in the field since 1998, both working for others and being self-employed ... but I don't feel that my workplaces have been bastions of macho-bullying-sexual-harassment. Sexist sometimes? Sure. If anything, in the initial stages of working a new position I felt like I was more of a cute novelty to most of my male colleagues and always had to "prove my chops" every contract I worked.
    That's discrimination - to have to endure expectations and standards that your male colleagues do not have to meet. I know it's difficult to see, because it's so all-pervasive in the industry that you start to just tune it out.

    And it may be worth noting that most of my contracts were government-related so that could have contributed to the better environment overall, not sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I've never had any issues with sexism here, and rarely detect even underlying sexism in how men and women treat each other; but then again, I do work for the fed gov and so they weed out the worst offenders via the hiring process. I think I noticed more (still nothing overt, but there were some attitudes with SOME of the guys that seemed to view women as not QUITE the equivalent of men in IT) when I worked for a private contractor.
    I tend to work short-term contracts (sometimes only a few weeks long) because I get bored / restless quickly. I have noticed that there is much less of a problem with public sector clients. I put this down to the fact that it's a less cut-throat environment in general, usually peopled by individuals with little ambition(/testosterone?)

    There are cultural differences too. I often travel for work and in my (limited) exp the US was the worst place in terms of gropy/perviness and Norway/Sweden the most enlightened places as far treating women as equals. Perhaps unsurprisingly the % of women working in these environments was directly proportional to how they were treated. Chicken, or egg?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...e-bright-girls

    ^I don't know if what is described in the article is true, I don't relate, but like @INA, went to a girl's school, which seems to have an insulating effect on self-esteem. Dunno.
    I, too, have felt insulated, because I grew up in a female-only family and never thought about gender roles. Actually, I go to a women's college and took a class called women and the economy, wherein we studied all this crap. It was pretty eye-opening for me to hear the experiences of other women in the class, and how most of them were able to trace back their feelings of incapability to hearing "girls can't ____" growing up.
    ( . )( . )

  10. #70
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I often travel for work and in my (limited exp) the US was the worst place in terms of gropy/perviness and Norway/Sweden the most enlightened places as far treating women as equals. Perhaps unsurprisingly the % of women working in these environments was directly proportional to how they were treated. Chicken, or egg?
    Do you actually see guys groping women in the workplace in the US? What industry sector and what geography?

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