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  1. #41
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've been working in IT for a long time seeing what's going on at lots of companies. Sexual harassment happens but is not very common in my experience. To say IT is a "macho bullying culture" borders on the absurd.
    Thank you for invalidating my experience.

    Clearly, you know nothing at all about bullying...

    Those were the words of an NF man at my last place of work. I had noticed the "macho", I hadn't noticed the bullying until he pointed it out. Perhaps you're even more oblivious than I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That's a stereotype. The vast majority of people in IT are not nerdy.
    Thank you! All of the men in our IT spend a lot of time in the gym... And were all frat boys...the kind that like to drink and party. They definitely didn't fit the nerdy stereotype.


  3. #43
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    Thank you! All of the men in our IT spend a lot of time in the gym... And were all frat boys...the kind that like to drink and party. They definitely didn't fit the nerdy stereotype.

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  4. #44
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    Thank you! All of the men in our IT spend a lot of time in the gym... And were all frat boys...the kind that like to drink and party. They definitely didn't fit the nerdy stereotype.
    Well, in that case Salomé's point seems to be right. That type of environment (which I abhor) does generally lead to sexism and bullying.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #45
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'm a man and I sort of shun it too, I hate it to be hoenst.

  6. #46
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That's a stereotype. The vast majority of people in IT are not nerdy.
    Maybe you work in sales or something less techie. I tend to work exclusively with extreme (male) geeks who have no idea how to relate to women, other than staring and drooling and derping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #47
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Maybe you work in sales or something less techie. I tend to work exclusively with extreme (male) geeks who have no idea how to relate to women, other than staring and drooling and derping.
    I was a developer for seven years. Now, from a client perspective, I work more with senior managers, directors and above, primarily in the information security area or technology leadership in general. I'm not directly managing people doing hands on work. There would be a level in the middle. The people I've worked with have tended to be pretty normal with some notable exceptions over the years. The guys who do attack and penetration work (and they are all guys) and who would attend Defcon are a bit of a different breed and not your typical consultant.

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  8. #48
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I was a developer for seven years. Now, from a client perspective, I work more with senior managers, directors and above, primarily in the information security area or technology leadership in general. I'm not directly managing people doing hands on work. There would be a level in the middle. The people I've worked with have tended to be pretty normal with some notable exceptions over the years. The guys who do attack and penetration work (and they are all guys) and who would attend Defcon are a bit of a different breed and not your typical consultant.
    Don't you think you're being a bit arrogant assuming you know how it feels to be a woman in this (or any environment)? I would never presume to know what goes on in the heads of my male colleagues. NFI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #49
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Don't you think you're being a bit arrogant assuming you know how it feels to be a woman in this (or any environment)? I would never presume to know what goes on in the heads of my male colleagues. NFI.
    Well, I don't know how it feels to be a woman working in that environment. I have however and do work with quite a large number of women (peers, bosses, clients, and employees) and have gotten to know a lot of women that work in IT very well. The place I'm working now takes harassment very seriously so my perceptions are colored by that.

    As far as not presuming to know what goes on in the heads of others, to be frank, I think it not entirely uncommon for you to ascribe motivations to other forum members. Why would it be different with the men at your work? I think we all do this to an extent but some are more vocal about it than others. So I find your comments on this to be a bit disingenuous. Don't get me wrong. I know harassment happens. I just don't perceive that IT is particularly worse than other occupations.

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  10. #50
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    One thought does occur to me. In addition to the big drop in women getting computer science degrees, in the US, there has been a huge shift from students who are US citizens to students from other countries. The significant majority of people I end up interviewing these days are from India and China. When I compare it to 10 years ago or even 5 years ago, the change has been enormous. I have a bachelors as well as masters in computer science and have done a lot of campus recruiting over the years. This is limited to my experience but the shift from US to non-US citizens has been much more significant than the reduction in women vs. men. I am not sure why this is, don't know if it's like this in other countries or if it has anything to do with the topic at hand.

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