User Tag List

First 7151617181927 Last

Results 161 to 170 of 301

  1. #161
    FigerPuppet
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    you are free to inspect methodology and criteria elsewhere. the OP's target community may or may not choose to direct the discourse in that direction, here.

    feel free to start a thread on that topic. because the difference between perception and reality as it pertains to sexual harassment is not under examination here.
    I don't understand why you are trying to undermine my efforts to make this a more productive discussion based on well-examined statistics. We are all interested in getting to the core of the matter here and come up with possible solutions, which absolutely cannot be accomplished if we stick to personal accounts. Your quoted study and survey lack credence until they have been made available for examination (Source Critique 101). So we are still at first base.

  2. #162
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,570

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ^^Nice find. I wonder if it's really that much worse in those sectors, or whether it's just that the women who work in them are smart enough to recognize it when they see it?
    Probably a bit of both.
    In Women And Workplace Discrimination, Raymond F. Gregory, civil rights attorney, describes the "double bind" facing women partner-track lawyers in a multi-year study of 8 metropolitan law firms, p 75:
    If they did not exhibit behavior based on male models, they were branded as not tough enough or insufficiently aggressive, but if they were perceived as tough and aggressive, they were regarded as impaired women who acted like men.


    on p 10 of Unwelcome and Unlawful, sexual discrimination lawyer Raymond F. Gregory states:
    Women generally react to sexually harassing conduct in one of four ways: "avoidance, defusion, negotiation, or confrontation." In avoidance--the least assertive but most common response--the victim of the harassment departs from the workplace, either by quitting, transferring to another position, or taking sick leave. In defusion, a somewhat more assertive response, the victim endeavors to minimize the intensity of the harassment by pretending to go along with the harasser so as to defuse the situation. She hopes the harassment eventually will cease, but often, the harasser interprets this type of response as encouragement to further harassment or even considers it provocative.
    you were saying, SmileyMan?

    continuing:

    In negotiation, the victim asks the harasser to cease his offensive behavior, sometimes threatening to expose him to his supervisors. In confrontation, the most assertive and least utilized response, the victim of the harassment files a formal complaint with her employer and later may resort to seeking a legal remedy.
    how many women have received training on any of the above-mentioned 4 techniques? i suspect the ones who survive are the ones who have mastered these (and other, more subtle) techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Your quoted study and survey lack credence until they have been made available for examination
    again, start your own thread. allow the members included in the OP's target post to pursue the examination of this topic in their own manner.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  3. #163
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    you were saying, SmileyMan?
    Don't encourage it. It doesn't know that of which it speaks. It works "on the fringe of IT" - translation: it fetches coffee for the likes of you and I.

    how many women have received training on any of the above-mentioned 4 techniques? i suspect the ones who survive are the ones who have mastered these (and other, more subtle) techniques.
    Good point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #164
    FigerPuppet
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    you were saying, SmileyMan?
    I'm happy you admit to having a problem with understanding written words, because I certainly didn't say that going along with the harassment, hoping for it to end on its own, would benefit their careers, nor did I say that women should act like alpha males. I said that Trunk did the right thing by keeping her head cool and not taking the issue to a 3rd party outside of the company, instead waiting for an opportunity to use it to her advantage inside of the company.

    again, start your own thread. allow the members included in the OP's target post to pursue the examination of this topic in their own manner.
    Just be forthright if all you want out of this is a circle-jerk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Don't encourage it. It doesn't know that of which it speaks. It works "on the fringe of IT" - translation: it fetches coffee for the likes of you and I.
    No, that's what we hire women for.

    Good point.

  5. #165
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,570

    Default

    3 serious questions:

    1 - why are personal anecdotes discounted? they are the stuff of lawsuits.
    2 - why should open discourse be labelled whining, when we know that the majority of sexual harassment goes unreported in official channels?
    3 - why is agreement among the fellow battle-hardened so threatening to some?

    perhaps because there is an implicit demand lying dormant in this topic.


    and when any marginalized group shares knowledge, and aligns internal points of view, they are actually doing far more than whining; they are dangerously close to becoming organized.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  6. #166
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Just to address topic title, I seriously doubt women shun IT because of urban myths about widespread sexual harassment. Most women simply don't want to work in IT because it doesn't interest them at all. This lack of interest can be explained from the grooming of genders that takes place from an early age; females mostly being passively encouraged through media and immediate environment to pursue professions of caretaking.
    This kind of acculturation is insidious, and its effects huge and far-reaching. Well-intentioned and even well-implemented efforts to encourage girls to consider the full range of career options are still contradicted by much of popular culture and unstated social/cultural expectation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    how many women have received training on any of the above-mentioned 4 techniques? i suspect the ones who survive are the ones who have mastered these (and other, more subtle) techniques.
    There is a 5th technique: confronting the harrasser directly, rather than through HR or "official channels". Letting him know, in no uncertain terms, that you aren't playing along, and you mean business. (It sounds like that is what you do.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #167
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    3 serious questions:

    1 - why are personal anecdotes discounted? they are the stuff of lawsuits.
    2 - why should open discourse be labelled whining, when we know that the majority of sexual harassment goes unreported in official channels?
    3 - why is agreement among the fellow battle-hardened so threatening to some?

    perhaps because there is an implicit demand lying dormant in this topic.
    You won't receive an answer to your questions. Such "characters" are only interested in pissing on serious topics/women, not engaging them.
    and when any marginalized group shares knowledge, and aligns internal points of view, they are actually doing far more than whining; they are dangerously close to becoming organized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #168
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Yo, I'ma generalize to the broader subject of 'women in IT.'

    This may not mean much--but I have a whole fat lot of respect for 'pioneers.' People don't get into careers that people aren't into, so someone's gotta lead the charge. They're risk-takers. Once the charge is led, then, blammo, you're gonna see some boundaries broken and more women folk lining up for the tech jobs.

    To tie it to the more specific subject of 'sexual harassment of women in IT':

    Hopefully, when the boundaries are broken, the stigma of women in IT is shattered, and more women join tech workforces, the culture will have shifted and they'll be seen as more normal--and so sexual harassment will decrease because they're not so alone. It's going to take some strong-willed pioneers to get past that initial growing pain, for sure.


    /hasn't really read the thread. but whatever

  9. #169
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #170
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,524

    Default

    Interesting report. From the conclusions:

    This report finds that women are underrepresented both in STEM jobs and STEM undergraduate degrees and have been consistently over the last decade. The relatively few women who receive STEM degrees are concentrated in physical and life sciences, in contrast to men, who are concentrated primarily in engineering. Women who do receive STEM degrees are less likely to work in STEM jobs than their male counterparts. And while women working in STEM jobs earn less than their male counterparts, they experience a smaller gender wage gap compared to others in non-STEM occupations.

    The underrepresentation of women in STEM majors and jobs may be attributable to a variety of factors. These may include different choices men and women typically make in response to incentives in STEM education and STEM employment – for example, STEM career paths may be less accommodating to people cycling in and out of the workforce to raise a family – or it may be because there are relatively few female STEM role models. Perhaps strong gender stereotypes discourage women from pursuing STEM education and STEM jobs.
    There is also the same drop in computer science degrees noted in the APS data. As long as the expectation and the reality is that family responsibilities rest primarily with women, I doubt much will change.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-01-2017, 02:12 PM
  2. Why women like to dance?
    By Virtual ghost in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 173
    Last Post: 06-07-2010, 03:19 PM
  3. Christopher Hitchens: Why women are still not funny
    By Sniffles in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 02-21-2009, 05:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO