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  1. #151
    FigerPuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Are you? Because if you are, you're helping to prove the point.
    What point? That the IT industry mostly consists of sexual predators and men who haven't heard of personal boundaries? At least, that was the point the original post was attempting to make.

    And if you're not part of the industry, you're not really qualified to comment. (Even if your gender did not already disqualify you).
    I know enough about DEFCON to not use it as the backbone of my generalizing statements about the IT industry. It's the same as using some gangsta rapper to make generalizing statements about the Unites States: Most Americans are crazy about platinum-plated guns, hydraulic cars and coating your teeth with gold. Except they're not.

    Women in IT are so brave. They're like male nurses, plus victimization - because men cannot be victims.

    Just to address topic title, I seriously doubt women shun IT because of urban myths about widespread sexual harassment. Most women simply don't want to work in IT because it doesn't interest them at all. This lack of interest can be explained from the grooming of genders that takes place from an early age; females mostly being passively encouraged through media and immediate environment to pursue professions of caretaking.

  2. #152
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    inviting discourse =/= sensationalizing.

    but attempts to re-characterize, marginalize or divert discourse rather than allow it to occur are an interesting part of the problem.

    and i'm not sure "punishment" is what most women in IT are after. consequences, yes, but real change most of all. perhaps an evolution in viewpoint is a good place to start.

    for your edification:
    The Dark Side of Open Source Conferences.

    (coincidentally, CES is a mess. you'd think you could get your geek on in peace. think again.)


    and should anyone wonder, the OP is hardly implying this reduces to behavior at conferences. purely symptomatic.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  3. #153
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    What point? That the IT industry mostly consists of sexual predators and men who haven't heard of personal boundaries? At least, that was the point the original post was attempting to make.

    I know enough about DEFCON to not use it as the backbone of my generalizing statements about the IT industry. It's the same as using some gangsta rapper to make generalizing statements about the Unites States: Most Americans are crazy about platinum-plated guns, hydraulic cars and coating your teeth with gold. Except they're not.

    Women in IT are so brave. They're like male nurses, plus victimization - because men cannot be victims.
    So what do you use as the backbone of your generalizing statements? Complete ignorance? That's working so well for you. Your complete contempt for women you know nothing about isn't obvious through your snarling teeth. AT. ALL.

    I noticed you evaded answering my question. Do you work in the industry? Because I’m pretty sure I read in another thread somewhere that you work at Taco Bell... So I’m wondering why you’re having such a hysterical reaction to my OP. (I mean, other than the usual reason of trolling me whenever you can just to get a bit of my attention. And the fact that, you know, you hate women... in general).

    Did someone accuse you of sexual harassment? I can’t imagine how that could happen, you always demonstrate such a measured and respectful attitude towards women on this forum.

    Just to address topic title, I seriously doubt women shun IT because of urban myths about widespread sexual harassment. Most women simply don't want to work in IT because it doesn't interest them at all. This lack of interest can be explained from the grooming of genders that takes place from an early age; females mostly being passively encouraged through media and immediate environment to pursue professions of caretaking.
    Just in case it weren't blindingly obvious: NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #154
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Just in case it weren't blindingly obvious: NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK.
    Screaming about how no one cares is the best way to prove that you don't care.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #155
    FigerPuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    So what do you use as the backbone of your generalizing statements? Complete ignorance? That's working so well for you. Your complete contempt for women you know nothing about isn't obvious through your snarling teeth AT ALL.
    Using DEFCON is flaunting your ignorance; the analogy I used made it perfectly clear how this is the case. Let me indulge your preconceived notions about my person: Do I need to write it in pink font before you can understand what I am saying?

    I noticed you evaded answering my question. Do you work in the industry? Because I’m pretty sure I read in another thread somewhere that you work at Taco Bell... So I’m wondering why you’re having such a hysterical reaction to my OP. (I mean, other than the usual reason of trolling me whenever you can just to get a bit of my attention. And the fact that, you know, you hate women, in general).
    You're mistaking me for somebody else. I work in the fringe of the IT industry. Regardless, one doesn't have to have an anecdotal relationship with some field in order to sniff out invalid generalizations about it and be critical of these, friend.

    Did someone accuse you of sexual harassment? I can’t imagine how that could happen, you always demonstrate such a measured and respectful attitude towards women on this forum.
    Thank you for noticing.
    I make an effort to treat women and men equally bad when they deserve it.

    Just in case it weren't blindingly obvious: NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK.
    Fanatics don't.

    As Hillary Clinton put it: "Stop whining."

  6. #156
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Oh great. Gang's all here. If only DiscoBiscuit wasn't banned you could all sit around your cave campfire and jerk each other off whilst taking a dump on yours truly.

    Try not to get too turned on, Smiley.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #157
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    we will have a more productive discussion if those familiar with the topic, either by virtue of working in IT, being a woman, or both, contribute.


    career blogger (and female tech founder) Penelope Trunk blogged about this topic:
    44% of women between ages 35 and 49 report experiencing sexual harassment at the workplace — even though almost every company has an explicit, no-tolerance policy. A national survey shows that 21% of all women report being sexually harassed at work, while a Rutger's University study indicates that for knowledge-based workers, the percentage can go as high as 88%. Yet when women leverage the no-tolerance policy their names are plastered over the business pages, and they are blacklisted in their industry.
    note: a knowledge worker is a professional whose main capital is knowledge. Typical examples may include software engineers, architects, engineers, scientists and lawyers, because they "think for a living".

    she goes on to conclude:

    So the best way to change corporate America is to gain power and then wield it. To get power, you have to stay in the workforce, not the court system, and work your way up. Unfortunately, this means learning how to navigate a boys’ club. But when you know the system, you then are clear about the root of its problems, and you know how to initiate change.
    i agree with staying in and sticking it out. (and personally, i do not ask for power, i take it.) however, her answer to (her) problem: go into marketing.


    p.s. those familiar with the overall phenomenon will understand why the above is amusing. and ironic.
    Last edited by AgentF; 10-22-2012 at 11:18 AM.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  8. #158
    FigerPuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Try not to get too turned on, Smiley.
    TOO LATE.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentF View Post
    career blogger (and female tech founder) Penelope Trunk blogged about this topic:
    That statistic isn't worth discussing until we can see survey and study in question and inspect the methodology and criteria. There's sometimes a difference between feeling that you have been sexually harassed, and actually having been sexually harassed.
    But she did the right thing, in terms of doing what's good for her career. Play by the rules of the game until you have enough power to change them yourself. All the women complaining in the comments are women who do not have the thich skin necessary to persevere and succeed in such an environment, so their only shot at success is by appealing to a 3rd party with higher powers - the courts.

  9. #159
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^^Nice find. I wonder if it's really that much worse in those sectors, or whether it's just that the women who work in them are smart enough to recognize it when they see it?
    Probably a bit of both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #160
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    That statistic isn't worth discussing until we can see survey and study in question and inspect the methodology and criteria.
    you are free to inspect methodology and criteria elsewhere. the OP's target community may or may not choose to direct the discourse in that direction, here.

    There's sometimes a difference between feeling that you have been sexually harassed, and actually having been sexually harassed.
    feel free to start a thread on that topic. because the difference between perception and reality as it pertains to sexual harassment is not under examination here.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

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