User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 26

  1. #11
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    On their part, or generally?
    Just generally.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #12
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Just generally.
    The whole socioeconomic empowerment for women of all classes was a good idea. Equal pay for equal work, guaranteed contraception and maternity leave, the whole shebang. That ought to be seen through, as poverty in this country has been clearly feminized further in the past few decades.

    Concurrent with that is:

    The drastic reduction of the American prison population. The massive incarceration of American men is the biggest issue that disproportionately affects them. Along with this would be the end of depriving rights to convicted felons, and sealing conviction records of all but violent crimes and crimes of dishonesty.

    Those are the two particularly gendered issues that I would stump for.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,648

    Default

    I used to call myself a feminist and identify with a lot of what they had to say, not the liberal, existential, moderate and politically defunct ones either but I read a lot of post-feminist and womens criticism of it which made me less and less convinced it was useful at all for appraising what's good and what's ill in any society or thinking about positive alternatives or improvements.

  4. #14
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I used to call myself a feminist and identify with a lot of what they had to say, not the liberal, existential, moderate and politically defunct ones either but I read a lot of post-feminist and womens criticism of it which made me less and less convinced it was useful at all for appraising what's good and what's ill in any society or thinking about positive alternatives or improvements.
    Who did you read?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #15
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    estj
    Enneagram
    378 sx/so
    Socionics
    esfp
    Posts
    3,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The whole socioeconomic empowerment for women of all classes was a good idea. Equal pay for equal work, guaranteed contraception and maternity leave, the whole shebang. That ought to be seen through, as poverty in this country has been clearly feminized further in the past few decades.

    Concurrent with that is:

    The drastic reduction of the American prison population. The massive incarceration of American men is the biggest issue that disproportionately affects them. Along with this would be the end of depriving rights to convicted felons, and sealing conviction records of all but violent crimes and crimes of dishonesty.

    Those are the two particularly gendered issues that I would stump for.
    What about the graduation rate disparity between men and women?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    What about the graduation rate disparity between men and women?
    That's a great example IMO. I don't know the hard stats but I have read in multiple areas that girls are outperforming boys from elementary through high school and perhaps undergrad, and there's been some studies suggesting that the current learning setup is more beneficial to girls, on average. Although the trend flips once you get to grad school, at least phd level, maybe not masters.

    This is probably also related (in either direction) to the idea that women test higher on IQ tests on average but that men are more variable, leading to more men than women at both the very smart and very dumb ends of the IQ scale. I say "idea" because again, this is from memory and may not be correct.

    Do you have any suggestions for reducing the disparity? Ideally without dragging girls back down, of course.

    @onemoretime, I would strongly agree with more prevention-oriented programs that aim to keep people from committing crimes in the first place. I'm not sure about the sealing records and "end of depriving rights", whatever that means. Also, what kind of crimes are you thinking about? I'm having a hard time thinking of things that send people to prison that aren't either violent or white collar crime (essentially dishonesty). DUI maybe, if that doesn't count as violent? "Nonviolent" sexual assaults, like stat rape or something? Of course, the media doesn't tend to report the non-dramatic crimes so those have less visibility.
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,648

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Who did you read?
    Name it.

    No, I mean literally I read every feminist book there was without exception, I also studied the topic the second time I was at university, the one in Dublin.

    Of all the feminists I found interesting or worthy the anarcha-feminists, some of them described themselves as post-feminists, and libertarian-individualist ones were the most interesting. Although to be honest the critics of the overall movement, especially female critics, were what I found the most interesting, since reading almost all of George Orwell's out put I've always been really intrigued with how supposedly representative emancipatory movements breakdown or betray their constituencies.

    Feminism is a good theory and movement to examine in this respect because it is not as old as others and as a consequence has much of the zeitgheist which the others lacked, although it is much more accurate to talk about feminisms because never has a movement been so reflective of its cultural backdrop, the US, UK and EU feminisms are very different, how each has considered the so called battle of the sexes has been very different, I would say that the composition re:sexual orientation has been different too.

    Italian and Spanish feminisms are intriguing for a very old battle of the sexes, the power struggles involved are not resolved, often it is combined with deeper literary and cultural trends too, seldom taking up or featuring the same topics or discourse as the anglo-saxon world, ie alienation from home making, alienation from men even, ambivalence about caring roles as mothers, wives, daughters.

    Some might construe it as chauvinistic, and they'd be wrong, but the topic has intrigued me for some time because I love women so much.

  8. #18
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Name it.

    No, I mean literally I read every feminist book there was without exception, I also studied the topic the second time I was at university, the one in Dublin.

    Of all the feminists I found interesting or worthy the anarcha-feminists, some of them described themselves as post-feminists, and libertarian-individualist ones were the most interesting. Although to be honest the critics of the overall movement, especially female critics, were what I found the most interesting, since reading almost all of George Orwell's out put I've always been really intrigued with how supposedly representative emancipatory movements breakdown or betray their constituencies.

    Feminism is a good theory and movement to examine in this respect because it is not as old as others and as a consequence has much of the zeitgheist which the others lacked, although it is much more accurate to talk about feminisms because never has a movement been so reflective of its cultural backdrop, the US, UK and EU feminisms are very different, how each has considered the so called battle of the sexes has been very different, I would say that the composition re:sexual orientation has been different too.

    Italian and Spanish feminisms are intriguing for a very old battle of the sexes, the power struggles involved are not resolved, often it is combined with deeper literary and cultural trends too, seldom taking up or featuring the same topics or discourse as the anglo-saxon world, ie alienation from home making, alienation from men even, ambivalence about caring roles as mothers, wives, daughters.

    Some might construe it as chauvinistic, and they'd be wrong, but the topic has intrigued me for some time because I love women so much.
    I'm wondering what specifically you read that would make you say, "made me less and less convinced it [feminism] was useful at all for appraising what's good and what's ill in any society or thinking about positive alternatives or improvements."

    I mean, postcolonial feminisms are still feminism, even if they are critical of WWW (Western white woman) influences in the movement, so I can't imagine that you read some bell hooks or Audre Lorde or Gayatri Spivak and came to the conclusion that feminism is "not useful at all for appraising what's good and what's ill in any society or thinking about positive alternatives or improvements."

    I'm not as familiar with anarcha-feminist literature...I mean, I've read a lot of what Emma Goldman had to say about it and it just seemed like she was a feminist who had subtracted all elements that were sympathetic to capitalism or the state, which makes sense but, again, I can't see where you would have drawn the above conclusion.

    The only types of authors I can see that MAY support what you said would be folks like Camille Paglia or Christina Hoff Summers, but they have strange and largely divergent viewpoints, so that's why I asked you who specifically you're talking about.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #19
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    estj
    Enneagram
    378 sx/so
    Socionics
    esfp
    Posts
    3,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    That's a great example IMO. I don't know the hard stats but I have read in multiple areas that girls are outperforming boys from elementary through high school and perhaps undergrad, and there's been some studies suggesting that the current learning setup is more beneficial to girls, on average. Although the trend flips once you get to grad school, at least phd level, maybe not masters.

    This is probably also related (in either direction) to the idea that women test higher on IQ tests on average but that men are more variable, leading to more men than women at both the very smart and very dumb ends of the IQ scale. I say "idea" because again, this is from memory and may not be correct.

    Do you have any suggestions for reducing the disparity? Ideally without dragging girls back down, of course.

    @onemoretime, I would strongly agree with more prevention-oriented programs that aim to keep people from committing crimes in the first place. I'm not sure about the sealing records and "end of depriving rights", whatever that means. Also, what kind of crimes are you thinking about? I'm having a hard time thinking of things that send people to prison that aren't either violent or white collar crime (essentially dishonesty). DUI maybe, if that doesn't count as violent? "Nonviolent" sexual assaults, like stat rape or something? Of course, the media doesn't tend to report the non-dramatic crimes so those have less visibility.
    I believe it is 120-125 women: 100 men. Often I feel men are prone to sacrificing long term benefit for immediate gain such as dropping school for work in order to gain access to mates. This just hurts everyone and leads to the absentee father syndrome blah blah I know it's a trope, but genuinely good guys have no fucking clue what to do and the assholes are taking over
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #20
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    Sometimes I read the things I've stated and wondered what the fuck I was thinking.


    I like the article because of it's neutrality on the subject. Feminism implies favoritism, undermining the goal. Whatever the opposite is, same applies to that.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-27-2014, 10:54 PM
  2. What about the reaction against X Box?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-27-2013, 05:28 PM
  3. What about the four last functions?
    By Tamske in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-13-2009, 07:43 PM
  4. What is the craziest bit of technology you have read about in SF?
    By macjoven in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 08:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO