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  1. #21
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Sounds like you feel anyone having any doubts about the party line should stay out of sight and out of mind.

    I'm not sure yet if this sort of mindset is a result of covering up on a hatred for the nay sayers or just being afraid to be associated with them or being strongly identified with the bullies.

    For my part I just think its great that the mask is beginning to slip from this particular movement, I hope that there is some learning takes place in its wake so that future movements dont repeat its mistakes either for the good of their choosen constituency or "underdog" or society at large.

    What I feel is that these sorts of demonstrations are very useful in instigating change and motivating others to seek change as well - but only in the sense that there were people out there who cared enough to protest. However, this can be said for people who accomplished the same goals in more effective and respectful ways. I can't speak for what impact this sort of thing will really have, but I think protesting for this sort of thing, in this instance, seems futile. At least for the present.

    They're picketing some Chic-Fil-A franchise, owned by someone who's basically irrelevant to what the company owners have said outside of their business relationship. That someone is just there to make money, not further his/her agenda. Unless the owner is privately motivated by his/her goals, feels like it's not worth it to continue their operation because of these protesters (which does not really help accomplish the main objective), or zombies attack, I don't think anything's gonna change here.

    I don't think protests like these won't have an impact on the history of the gay rights movement. I think it will be another instance through which people will slowly but surely integrate teh gayness into their mental schema. That's why I think it's good in the long run. But I'm not a fan, because the video is of a bunch of self-righteous hotheads who think that screaming at the top of their lungs will convince the manager to shut their franchise down. Tbh, my thoughts were that the protesters sounded crazy and the priest was being a presumptuous douche. That being said, I think there are more intelligent and effective ways to advocate against discrimination.

    tl;dr

    It's not my style.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ism View Post
    What I feel is that these sorts of demonstrations are very useful in instigating change and motivating others to seek change as well - but only in the sense that there were people out there who cared enough to protest. However, this can be said for people who accomplished the same goals in more effective and respectful ways. I can't speak for what impact this sort of thing will really have, but I think protesting for this sort of thing, in this instance, seems futile. At least for the present.

    They're picketing some Chic-Fil-A franchise, owned by someone who's basically irrelevant to what the company owners have said outside of their business relationship. That someone is just there to make money, not further his/her agenda. Unless the owner is privately motivated by his/her goals, feels like it's not worth it to continue their operation because of these protesters (which does not really help accomplish the main objective), or zombies attack, I don't think anything's gonna change here.

    I don't think protests like these won't have an impact on the history of the gay rights movement. I think it will be another instance through which people will slowly but surely integrate teh gayness into their mental schema. That's why I think it's good in the long run. But I'm not a fan, because the video is of a bunch of self-righteous hotheads who think that screaming at the top of their lungs will convince the manager to shut their franchise down. Tbh, my thoughts were that the protesters sounded crazy and the priest was being a presumptuous douche. That being said, I think there are more intelligent and effective ways to advocate against discrimination.

    tl;dr

    It's not my style.
    I dont think there is an issue with discrimination here in the first place, the owner of the franchise expressed a view which was contrary to those of that are protesting but its a legitimate view which can be held and should be respected, I really dont see how or why the idea that people will eventually have to learn to agree to disagree and share the country or city or town despite their differences hasnt dawned on anyone involved in this dispute.

    I dont accept that homosexuality is or should be widespread, I dont accept that it should be treated as normative by the wider heterosexual majority to please a homosexual minority, of the homosexual minority I believe there may be a percentage whose sexual orientation is determined before their birth and who for whom consequently same sex attraction is entirely "natural" but I believe that is a small number of people. I think there are many in the gay community who're likely to be alienated from heterosexuality for myriad reasons and rather than deal with that through protest and constant reaffirmation and reinforcement the alternative identity is impressed upon them. However, even treating all those numbers as a single entity it is still a small number. While minority-majority relations are a good political question it is wrong to suppose that imposition of the minority's norms is going to be for the good of either, at all.

    No one has yet to persuade me of those opinions being in error, definitely no one who has attacked me and labelled me a bigot, a homophobe, a closet gay or any of the other cliched responses I've gotten used to.

    I started out as not much caring about this issue, to a greater extent I still dont, whatever people do in their free time is their business provided I'm not expected to spectate, subsidise, support directly or indirectly, affirm, accept or otherwise be compelled or coerced about. They could be playing chess or lawn darts for all I care. Its not the acts themselves which I've got a problem with or what people feel for one another. Its when I see actions like this demonstration and how they treat people, like the priest who have the balls to disagree and do so publically in their vacinity that I get vexed.

    Like I've said this is the movement, not the movement at its worst, its what it is, there's a lot of people who're yet to come to terms with that and they've got plenty of reasons to choose and to want to ignore that this is going on, either wanting to always root for who they think is the underdog, hating what they think people who dont buy the gay agenda in its present form are or are about, friends or family members who're identifying themselves as gay and feelings of loyalty towards them etc. etc.

  3. #23
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    The only thing that I was able to hear was the two words 'hateful bigot' being recited throughout the video. As proven, ad hominem does not gain efficacy by quantity. I'd like to hear the priests point of view, but since that was cut out, I have to assume that he was deliberately placing himself in that mob to antagonize the hornets nest further.

    Edit; And 'Gay Protestors Surround Praying Priest!', Really? Word got around that a priest was pacing around the gutter praying, and that inspired the gay community to rise up and surround him. I smell bias, the smell reminds me of roadkill being left to fry on the pavement.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its absolutely noting like that and its absolutely disgusting that you would suggest so. In fact I'm convinced you do not have a clue what you just said. Its on a par with saying that the holocaust was just a repatriation gone sliightly awry.
    A power analysis is disturbing to those in power and those who identify with power. So they would much prefer a sexual analysis.

    They would much prefer to be accused of lust for sex than lust for power - so power can continue to commit their crimes in silence.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    A power analysis is disturbing to those in power and those who identify with power. So they would much prefer a sexual analysis.

    They would much prefer to be accused of lust for sex than lust for power - so power can continue to commit their crimes in silence.
    What's the point of communicating with others when its not going to make any sense what so ever outside of your head Victor?

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What's the point of communicating with others when its not going to make any sense what so ever outside of your head Victor?
    I rely upon you to correct me Lark.

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