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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Well, anyhoo, I'm happy there are some evangelical scholars and scientists out there who are professional enough to deserve those appellations.

    *struggles futilely to stay on topic, since we've already heard this other shit repeatedly, usual suspects*
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Why do those things matter?
    Because that's what religion is for? I'm not sure I understand your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't see how you get from your obseravation to your conclusion.
    I suppose my conclusion itself used a circumscribed wording. I'll see if I can clarify.

    What I meant by "orthogonal" was and analogy to mathematics. Say you could somehow measure how religious or irreligious someone is, and also how involved he is in government. You would have two variables. You could plot these points on a plane. A priori, points anywhere in the plane are allowable. That is, one does not need to be irreligious in order to be heavily involved in government, but one does not need to be religious either.

    Admittedly, the 1st ammendment talks about laws. I was talking more about how religious someone is vs. how involved in the government he is. But a priori, the government ought not be passing laws that enforce one way or another. I think that is taking the words of the amendment at face value.

    BTW, I need to head to lab. I will check back in later.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #23
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Who gives a shit about all of that anyway? None of us (AFAIK) are constitutional experts, so let's leave all of that aside. The larger point is: why should we want to facilitate the hegemony of one religion by allowing its interference in state affairs, which affect all people?
    Lol @ the leftist not giving A shit about the law.

    I'm all for stopping leftist progressives from pushing their civil religion on everyone.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, anyhoo, I'm happy there are some evangelical scholars and scientists out there who are professional enough to deserve those appellations.

  5. #25
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Because that's what religion is for?
    Says who?



    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I suppose my conclusion itself used a circumscribed wording. I'll see if I can clarify.

    What I meant by "orthogonal" was and analogy to mathematics. Say you could somehow measure how religious or irreligious someone is, and also how involved he is in government. You would have two variables. You could plot these points on a plane. A priori, points anywhere in the plane are allowable. That is, one does not need to be irreligious in order to be heavily involved in government, but one does not need to be religious either.
    Ok, I didn't understand you even after looking up orthogonal. I can agree with this conclusion.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    How long until conservatives denounce the Thomas Nelson publishing company of being leftist? How long until they denounce Throckmorton and Coulter of the same? You know it's coming. It has been the modus operandi of the extreme right-wing (or the extremely stupid) for more than a decade now.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Says who?
    I don't think anyone needs to say anything about this. I believe this comes from a a common human experience. Who hasn't felt a little lost about what they need to do in life? Who doesn't seek a greater meaning or purpose in life? Who does not want to share emotional experiences with others? Do we really need someone to tell us these things are important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Ok, I didn't understand you even after looking up orthogonal. I can agree with this conclusion.
    I figured it was my wording. But I thought the analogy was pretty good (even if somewhat circumscribed).

    EDIT: I'm gone for a bit ( for real this time).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #28
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How long until conservatives denounce the Thomas Nelson publishing company of being leftist? How long until they denounce Throckmorton and Coulter of the same? You know it's coming. It has been the modus operandi of the extreme right-wing (or the extremely stupid) for more than a decade now.

    Why applaud a move when you can expect the worst?
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Why applaud a move when you can expect the worst?
    Don't worry there will always be people who live down to your expectations.
    Applaud?

    Christians never fail to meet my low expectations of them.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The image doesn't work.

    But it's iffy as to whether or not I want to see it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How long until conservatives denounce the Thomas Nelson publishing company of being leftist? How long until they denounce Throckmorton and Coulter of the same? You know it's coming. It has been the modus operandi of the extreme right-wing (or the extremely stupid) for more than a decade now.
    Well, Thomas Nelson might be a Christian publisher, but they're owned by News Corporation (Rupert Murdoch) > Harper Collins. There's a number of Christian music and book publishers who are owned by secular companies nowadays (for example, Word Music which published Amy Grant in the '80's and was pretty big at the time went first to Capital City ABC and then got snatched Thomas-Nelson and then to AOL-Time-Warner. It is now owned by Warner Music Group, which was spun off AOL-Time-Warner.)

    So prepare for those denouncements!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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