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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Ugh. Separation of church and state isn't in the constitution.
    Have you read far enough to get to the first amendment?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    [...] the worlds religions agree on what is important and point to the same place.
    The unknown?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The unknown?
    Here we go again.

    [YOUTUBE="Ylp5iKDFe10"]It's like gravity all it takes is a little push[/YOUTUBE]

    EDIT - by all means continue without me.

  4. #14
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    But it was in Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association and the spirit of that was caught in the 1st ammendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Have you read far enough to get to the first amendment?


    The first ammendment prohibits the government from interfering with religion. It explicitly protects the right of the religious and religious organizations to inluence the government. Clearly they are not seperate.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The unknown?
    Or even the unknowable.

    That is the point.

    Science deals with the known and measurable. It is descriptive. Here, it pays to be detail oriented and specific. Here we aim to take things literally, and to say exactly what we mean. Here the models, theories, and explanations are important...and knowable.

    Religion deals with the unknown and the unknowable. It is prescriptive. It acknowledges that there are things that are unknown and unknowable, at gives guidance. Here, the specifics are not important because they are made up.

    What matters is the individual peace, human connection, and comfort that they try to bring--the shared connection to a deeper purpose that can be sensed through individual and group ritual...if you will, an experience of ones relationship to God.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The first ammendment prohibits the government from interfering with religion. It explicitly protects the right of the religious and religious organizations to inluence the government. Clearly they are not seperate.
    I suppose, it depends on what you mean by separate. It does prohibits laws respecting an establishment of religion, and it also prohibits the prohibition of religion.

    In my own terms, religion and government should be "orthogonal" factors in the life of a citizen.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #17
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Awesome. I've never understood Why some evangelical people feel the need to connect the united to states to Christianity. Nationalism isn't really biblical (except I guess the old testameant but there are some special circumstances there)
    Actually converting others is the very nature of evangelicalism. Also, because of their belief in biblical authority, it would logically follow that they would not count their government exempt from this.
    ( . )( . )

  8. #18
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What matters is the individual peace, human connection, and comfort that they try to bring--the shared connection to a deeper purpose that can be sensed through individual and group ritual...if you will, an experience of ones relationship to God.
    Why do those things matter?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #19
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I suppose, it depends on what you mean by separate. It does prohibits laws respecting an establishment of religion, and it also prohibits the prohibition of religion.

    In my own terms, religion and government should be "orthogonal" factors in the life of a citizen.
    I don't see how you get from your obseravation to your conclusion.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #20
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The first ammendment prohibits the government from interfering with religion. It explicitly protects the right of the religious and religious organizations to inluence the government. Clearly they are not seperate.
    Who gives a shit about all of that anyway? None of us (AFAIK) are constitutional experts, so let's leave all of that aside. The larger point is: why should we want to facilitate the hegemony of one religion by allowing its interference in state affairs, which affect all people?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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