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  1. #191
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I have a theory about the rage felt towards individuals who fall outside traditional gender roles and sexual orientation. In cases where men excessively dominate women, the concept of sexuality is based on this feeling of dominating another human being. The woman is object, property, submissive, and must obey. This deep concept of sexual desire as a way of fulfilling a sense of personal power runs even deeper than conscious thought. When man instilled with these assumptions encounters a man who has the capacity to feel sexual desire towards another man (and the assumption is that the transgendered person is not truly the gender they identify with), this means that such a man is capable of desiring to dominate other men. This is seen as an afront to this sense of personal power, and is seen as a direct insult that must be dominated and destroyed to maintain that personal power.

    There are certainly other motivations that play into it, but this is one strain of thought that could explain that rage.

    Apologies for the quick off-topic, but it happened to be something I've thought a lot about.
    lol.. In my case, it might all be real and not in my head. I had some hate for "gayness" when I was young because I literally was stalked and "assaulted" when I was 9, by some older kid. He followed me home and tried to kiss me. I punched him and he took off, but he was exerting some kind of dominance I guess. It "scared" me. Maybe I had some latent idea that homosexuals were predators after that. I never went off and gay bashed anyone though. I just didn't want to befriend them. I ended up being friends with one because of a girl I was dating.. her best friend was gay, and I ended up getting along. Maybe I grew up from there.

  2. #192
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    lol.. In my case, it might all be real and not in my head. I had some hate for "gayness" when I was young because I literally was stalked and "assaulted" when I was 9, by some older kid. He followed me home and tried to kiss me. I punched him and he took off, but he was exerting some kind of dominance I guess. It "scared" me. Maybe I had some latent idea that homosexuals were predators after that. I never went off and gay bashed anyone though. I just didn't want to befriend them. I ended up being friends with one because of a girl I was dating.. her best friend was gay, and I ended up getting along. Maybe I grew up from there.
    That would be very threatening and uncomfortable and does play into this issue of dominance on a couple of levels. It sounds like that kid did express his sexuality with dominance and that does feel violating. It is worth realizing that that type of experience is practically normal for girls to experience from boys/men. Many girls/women get grabbed, pinched, kissed, touched, talked to suggestively and aggressively, etc. against their wills more times than they are likely to remember, and it tends to start in childhood. It is a form of bullying and particularly upsetting.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  3. #193
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I have a theory about the rage felt towards individuals who fall outside traditional gender roles and sexual orientation. In cases where men excessively dominate women, the concept of sexuality is based on this feeling of dominating another human being. The woman is object, property, submissive, and must obey. This deep concept of sexual desire as a way of fulfilling a sense of personal power runs even deeper than conscious thought. When man instilled with these assumptions encounters a man who has the capacity to feel sexual desire towards another man (and the assumption is that the transgendered person is not truly the gender they identify with), this means that such a man is capable of desiring to dominate other men. This is seen as an afront to this sense of personal power, and is seen as a direct insult that must be dominated and destroyed to maintain that personal power.

    There are certainly other motivations that play into it, but this is one strain of thought that could explain that rage.

    Apologies for the quick off-topic, but it happened to be something I've thought a lot about.
    Hmm. Dunno about that. Men dominate other men whatever their sexual proclivities.
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  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    In Florida, you don't have to retreat,
    The "stand your ground" laws were created because the previous state favored protecting thugs over the rights of upstanding citizens. I agree with the intent. If abuse turns out to be too easy, the laws should be tweaked. Repealing them is not the answer.


    but you still must have the reasonable belief that death or serious bodily injury were imminent. So no, legally, just getting an ass kicking from a bully would not justify the use of deadly force in defense, in normal circumstances.
    The problem is that there is no way to predict how serious the beating would be. Any violence could potentially be deadly. That is why the courts need to look at the details to decide whether the belief of imminent serious harm was reasonable.

    There is no legal or moral requirement for a victim to submit to a serious beating to protect the aggressor.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    I admit that usage of the knife as tool of incapacitation could be justified on the grounds of how impotent he would be without it; this, I believe, was not the purpose he used it for. If you stab someone 12 times, you want them dead.
    You don't know that with much certainty. If it turned out that the first 11 stabs did not back off the attacker, then the 12th one would be perfectly justified.

    Which specific criteria? That you're about to be beat up in a fashion that is not rare in high school? Getting bruised is not enough; the threat of lifelong paralysis or death most definitely is. How many high school fights out of a thousand do you think end up with the latter as a result?
    If you use a statistical criteria, then no one would have the right to self defense.


    I'm not going to provide you with a logically coherent explanation on why life is an inalienable right, nor why these exist, but the most honourable Mr. Hobbes and Mr. Locke will gladly do so for me.
    I reject the inalienable right concept outright, but that makes no difference to the current discussion.

    These facts tell me that he most likely wasn't acting out of fear for his life, but rather acting out of anger. He wasn't trying to incapacitate the bully, which could be justified given the circumstances - he was trying to kill him.
    As I've said earlier, it may have taken 12 shots before the attacker backed off. Most of the jabs might have only angered the attacker. We don't know the details at this point.

    I've mentioned this before, but it worries me greatly that a kid can get away with taking a life so easily - both legally and in terms of public perception. It seems to me that the victims of bullying turn into little bloodthirsty buggers who haven't dealt with their own issues. We've all tried the "If I was there, I would have..!" and "If I could turn back time, I would have..!", but you guys are taking it way too far.
    I don't think the bully deserves to die. But I think the right to self defense is paramount. The aggressor had no right to beat the victim. The victim had every right to prevent injury to himself using as much force as necessary. The aggressor could easily have saved himself by simply choosing to flee. He died for his machismo.

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