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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    You may be surprised by how many stories there are of a "standard" fist fight ending in death. All it takes is hitting the person the right way, or having them fall over onto something.
    Precisely. This is why I stated in the original post


    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    Complete bullshit. Apparently a punch in the back of the head has a high chance of causing death or great bodily harm. While I don't doubt that death can occur from being punched in the back of the head, I'd say it's less likely than the chance of dying while driving around in your daily commute.
    While it's possible for death to occur, no sane person would think

    "This person has punched me. I'm alive. Clearly he intended to kill me but hadn't hit a critical point where I would die. I'm lucky. I should now eliminate the threat"

    instead a sane person would think the more logical

    "This person has punched me. He said he wanted a fight prior. Clearly he has initiated a school fist fight."

    School fist fight =/= (lol sorry for late edit) Intent to murder.

  2. #112
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Saavedra had been warned of the fight the entire day. He showed the knife to two people on the bus that afternoon. It is clear that he intended to use it in the fight. Of course he would have prefered escape, but if it came to a confrontation he was prepared to use it.
    interesting, I don't blame him. if I could get away with it without legal consequences, I probably would have too.

    Pussy.
    better a living, in tact pussy than a fool who gets himself killed or injured for trying to "fight fair" or with "honor" against an aggressor who initiates an unprovoked attack (especially one who is older/physically stronger). all's fair in love and war my friend
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  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    We've got enough people in the world.

    The fact that this kid now doesn't have the opportunity to pass the cycle of abuse on to any potential kids he may have had in the future is a good thing.
    cheers to that!!
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  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    School fist fight = Intent to murder.
    I'm not sure why it always comes down to such generalizations. But I can't disagree there, a majority of school fist fights do not have murder in mind. What I am saying though, is that I don't believe this case is so simple that it can be represented with such a basic equation.

    Edit: Yeah, I understood your meaning even with the typo.
    ...

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    While it's possible for death to occur, no sane person would think
    "This person has punched me. I'm alive. Clearly he intended to kill me but hadn't hit a critical point where I would die. I'm lucky. I should now eliminate the threat"
    instead a sane person would think the more logical
    "This person has punched me. He said he wanted a fight prior. Clearly he has initiated a school fist fight."
    School fist fight = Intent to murder.
    when you are faced with a physical aggressor who is stronger than you, intent on causing you physical harm and hits you hard in the back of the head when you attempt to flee, most 14 year olds are not going to be sane and certainly not logical. this was precisely my point about you viewing the situation as far more civilized than it actually is.
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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    And why does him having a knife on him prove that he planned to use it for murder? As I've said, I regularly carry several, I don't plan on murdering anyone with them, and the fact that you would imply that someone carrying a knife automatically intends on using them/it on someone is frankly insulting.
    His intentions become very clear once he shows the knife to people on the bus before he will have to make the flight/fight-decision. He has known the entire day that this decision will have to be made; he chose to flee by stepping off the bus. Then he was confronted and forced to fight. He had prepared for this eventuality by carrying a knife. Do you really think what was going through his head was: "Hey! That guy hit me in the back of the head, which carries a very small risk of deadly injury! Good thing it just so happens I brought ME KNOIFE." No, he was surrounded and the only way he could win the fight was probably to use the knife, but that doesn't justify its use. Again, there is only one justified use if it, and that is if you're fearing for your life, which I seriously doubt the kid was. He was very angry and afraid, but not afraid for his life. Afraid for getting bruised, more likely.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    So I'm the pussy for not thinking it's OK to bring a knife to a fistfight?
    I'm not saying the victim of bullying shouldn't have stood up for himself. The problem is that he utterly overreacted. He wasn't capable of moderating his reaction because he was acting in passion, which is understandable. This doesn't mean he is innocent, though! It's called voluntary manslaughter. Taking somebody else's life should not go unpunished unless you have a very good reason to fear for your life.
    in this situation naive. street fights are never fair fights, you are not fighting in a ring, a controlled environment, where a hand or someone would come out of no where and save you.

    the bully did not let up, he took it too far and the guy was afraid of him.


    do you feel that its okay to live in constant terror under someone? constantly be harassed. have you ever had someone exert so much force on you and been outnumbered and you can feel the lack of concern behind the impact their fist makes in your face? its easy to empathize.

    cops are great only for after the fact and even than there is always some slap on the wrist, little community service. i can see where there are issues with the stand your ground law, the zimmerman case. in this situation, i dont think the kid should be penalized for defending himself and having to continue to endure a miserable existence. do you?
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  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    when you are faced with a physical aggressor who is stronger than you, intent on causing you physical harm and hits you hard in the back of the head when you attempt to flee, most 14 year olds are not going to be sane and certainly not logical. this was precisely my point about you viewing the situation as far more civilized than it actually is.
    Do you know how much concentration and focus is required to utilize a weapon in a situation such as that? It's not primal instinct to use a knife. Rather, a more primal instinct would be to bite or claw at the attacker. Not use a foreign device created by man to inflict maximum damage. No there was logical steps taken and I'm very confident that this kid had the idea "if he pushes me too far I'm going to use my nuclear bomb on his ass".

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    His intentions become very clear once he shows the knife to people on the bus before he will have to make the flight/fight-decision. He has known the entire day that this decision will have to be made; he chose to flee by stepping off the bus. Then he was confronted and forced to fight. He had prepared for this eventuality by carrying a knife. Do you really think what was going through his head was: "Hey! That guy hit me in the back of the head, which carries a very small risk of deadly injury! Good thing it just so happens I brought ME KNOIFE." No, he was surrounded and the only way he could win the fight was probably to use the knife, but that doesn't justify its use. Again, there is only one justified use if it, and that is if you're fearing for your life, which I seriously doubt the kid did. He was very angry and afraid, but not afraid for his life.
    Weren't you the one that was complaining about conjecture, or was that someone else? No matter, for the bold, I say: prove it.

    And for the rest... You kind of made my point. He made quite a few efforts to flee and avoid the fight, and had the knife just in case all of his efforts failed. Prepared self-defense does not mean it wasn't self-defense.

    Edit: Ah, apparently it was SwivelingLight who was complaining about conjecture, my bad. My point still stands, though.
    ...

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    Do you know how much concentration and focus is required to utilize a weapon in a situation such as that? It's not primal instinct to use a knife. Rather, a more primal instinct would be to bite or claw at the attacker. Not use a foreign device created by man to inflict maximum damage. No there was logical steps taken and I'm very confident that this kid had the idea "if he pushes me too far I'm going to use my nuclear bomb on his ass".
    yes, I do. not much. our hominid ancestors have been doing it since the days of homo habilis 2 million years ago. pointy end goes into your opponent. not difficult
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