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  1. #91
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    So I'm the pussy for not thinking it's OK to bring a knife to a fistfight?
    I'm not saying the victim of bullying shouldn't have stood up for himself. The problem is that he utterly overreacted. He wasn't capable of moderating his reaction because he was acting in passion, which is understandable. This doesn't mean he is innocent, though! It's called voluntary manslaughter. Taking somebody else's life should not go unpunished unless you have a very good reason to fear for your life.
    A pussy? Really? Why do you say that?

    I'm just saying that it appears like you're engaging in a lot of abstract theorising of something you've no experience of, dont feel bad, its a good thing, no one should want to have had a brush with tragic or violent events.

    I dont think this is voluntary manslaughter at all, someone issuing a challenge, like a duellist, and someone then getting tooled up and going out to meet the challenge, that's voluntary manslaughter. Trying to beat a retreat a bunch of times and finally having no option but killing because you believe to do otherwise is to risk being killed yourself isnt.

  2. #92
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    Why is 5 more horrible than 1?
    Actually, one might be worse. To me it implies that the guy knows what he/she is doing and has good aim...
    ...

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    Why? I guess I don't know about stabbing someone. Why is 5 more horrible than 1?
    Sing it sister.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    Huh? Really, what facts are you going off of there?

    Let me curb stomp you and we'll see...
    I'm sorry, based on the facts in this case... the unarmed man was incapble of dealing deadly force.


    I'm not trying to say that an unarmed man in all scenarios (universally) cannot use deadly force. There are some men who have to register their fists as lethal weapons due to the strength of their punch.

    The fact you took my statement out of context and pushed it further than it was intended shows your desperation, however.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    Conjecture.
    Or speculation? Why're you using that word?

  6. #96
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    I'm sorry, based on the facts in this case. I'm not trying to say that an unarmed man in all scenarios cannot use deadly force. There are some men who have to register their fists as lethal weapons due to the strength of their punch.

    The fact you took my statement out of context and pushed it further than it was intended shows your desperation, however.
    Sorry, I couldn't help but think of Chuck Norris there.

    And you have woefully misinterpreted the situation here if you think that I'm getting desperate.
    ...

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or speculation? Why're you using that word?
    Possibly for the same reason you prefer speculation over conjecture. Who knows, it's not relevant.

  8. #98
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    So I'm the pussy for not thinking it's OK to bring a knife to a fistfight?
    with all due respect, yes, a little bit. when someone threatens you, physically hits you and makes you feel like you are in serious physical danger, you are under no obligation to fight fair. hell, I'd rather bring a gun to a fist fight than fight fair. also, the kid was 2 years older than him, someone who picks fights with kids 2 years younger than them is not fighting fair and does not deserve to be met with a fair fight. the 14 year old (likely a scared, conflict avoidant victim of bullying) would have gotten his ass whupped by the 16 year old who was used to dealing out physical aggression had he fought fairly.

    I'm not saying the victim of bullying shouldn't have stood up for himself. The problem is that he utterly overreacted. He wasn't capable of moderating his reaction because he was acting in passion, which is understandable. This doesn't mean he is innocent, though! It's called voluntary manslaughter. Taking somebody else's life should not go unpunished unless you have a very good reason to fear for your life.
    you make the situation sound so civilized. he was acting out of fear/desperation and acted instinctively aggressively after he tried to escape. bullying is a mental game and we was both mentally and physically trapped. as you said, he overreacted, but he overreacted to an extremely scary physical threat after he attempted to flee. when you corner an animal, the animal is gonna fight like hell to survive. there is no room for rational thought as the mind is solely bent on "extinguish the threat!" so of course he overreacted. he had no choice, the guy acted and forced his hand, and he reacted.

    PS: if I were in this situation, I would not feel the least bit guilty about it.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    He had the knife on him the whole time, he wasn't expecting a fight. Quit trying to make it seem like this is a situation where two people decided upon a time and place for a fist fight and one guy decided to bring a knife to murder the guy. He tried to avoid the fight, he had no desire or intention of fighting with the guy, and he happened to have a knife on him. The bringing a knife to a fistfight expression refers to bringing an unfair advantage to an otherwise fair fight, that wasn't the case here.

    Until I hear evidence of him saying "I'm going to use this knife to kill that guy." to his friends when he showed them the knife, I have no reason to believe otherwise.
    Saavedra had been warned of the fight the entire day. He showed the knife to two people on the bus that afternoon. It is clear that he intended to use it in the fight. Of course he would have prefered escape, but if it came to a confrontation he was prepared to use it.

    "... There was a group of boys harassing Mr. Saavedra, repeatedly threatening Mr. Saavedra, on the day this incident happened,” Saavedra's attorney Donald Day said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    with all due respect, yes, a little bit. when someone threatens you, physically hits you and makes you feel like you are in serious physical danger, you are under no obligation to fight fair. hell, I'd rather bring a gun to a fist fight than fight fair. also, the kid was 2 years older than him, someone who picks fights with kids 2 years younger than them is not fighting fair and does not deserve to be met with a fair fight. the 14 year old (likely a scared, conflict avoidant victim of bullying) would have gotten his ass whupped by the 16 year old who was used to dealing out physical aggression had he fought fairly.
    Pussy.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    I'm sorry, based on the facts in this case... the unarmed man was incapble of dealing deadly force.
    Actually, I see no reason that anyone in decent shape wouldn't be capable of killing someone weaker than them without a weapon.

    You need to warn me when you edit things in, it makes it seem like I'm ignoring part of your argument.
    ...

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