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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Yes, but do you have to give fetuses full personhood and vote to defund Planned Parenthood and Title X (which helps fund family planning for the poor)?

    Also, Paul Ryan has about the worst gay rights voting record of anyone (or best, if one is against the expansion of gay rights), excepting one vote for ENDA.

    His voting record is pretty much in line with Michelle Bachmann's (although one can argue that Ryan entered congress at a time when Republican's were being particularly self-disciplined about voting as a bloc). So, whether he talks about it or not, I wouldn't consider him a social moderate.

    (Although I'm happy to hear evidence to the contrary.)
    Eight Things You Should Know About Romney Running Mate Paul Ryan

    He’s not your typical Congressman.
    “I’m kind of a homebody,” he told TIME in 2010. “Half the reason I’m not in leadership is because I don’t want to spend my weekends flying around the country campaigning and raising money. I want to spend my weekends at home with my little ones. The other half of the reason — I like policy over politics.”

    He’s health-conscious.
    At the age of 16, Ryan found his father dead of a heart attack at home. Both his grandfather and his great-grandfather died of heart disease in their 50s. Ryan, 42, is a health freak who runs daily grueling P90X classes for members and staff at the congressional gym. He was voted “biggest gym rat” by an anonymous poll of congressional staffers by Washingtonian magazine in 2010. Ryan himself has said his mortality is partly what has limited his ambitions.

    He came of age in the fiscal right wing of the GOP.
    As a young man, Ryan held numerous amusing summer jobs, including a stint as an Oscar Mayer salesman in which he drove a Wienermobile. He envisioned eventually going to the University of Chicago for an advanced degree in economics and becoming an economist/academic, but he says he “kept getting lured into politics.” He married his two interests by working for Jack Kemp and William Bennett at Empower America, where he learned about supply-side economics — and the politics that go with it. He later worked as a legislative aid to Kansas Senator Sam Brownback, during which time he waited tables and worked as a fitness trainer to make ends meet, before returning to Wisconsin to run for office.

    (MORE: The Romney-Ryan Ticket Unveiled in Virginia)

    He married into politics but across the aisle.
    Ryan’s married to Janna Little Ryan, the niece of former Senator David Boren, an Oklahoma Democrat. Janna has huge family ties to Southern politics. They met while he was a staffer on the Hill. Together they have three children: two boys, ages 7 and 8, and a girl, age 9. Ryan recently began teaching his eldest, Liza, the art of bow-hunting deer. Ryan is also an avid fisherman of walleye and muskie.

    He rose through the political ranks quickly.
    Elected to his first term in 1998, Ryan vaulted over a dozen more-senior Republicans to become ranking member on the Budget Committee in 2007. (He became chairman when the Republicans won the House at the end of 2010.) Ryan had planned for a long time to produce his own sweeping budget plan, but he lacked the “computer power” to crunch the numbers until he became ranking member. He spent much of 2007 working on what came to be known as his Road Map. Meanwhile, his first alternative budgets, in 2009 and 2010, were test runs for what eventually became a centerpiece of the Republican platform.

    His vision for the U.S. is very controversial.
    While much of the Tea Party ran in 2010 on a promise to enact Ryan’s plan, the Ryan budget remains contentious. Democrats have attacked it for voucherizing Medicare, and in spring 2011, then presidential candidate Newt Gingrich got himself into trouble with conservatives when he dubbed the plan “radical.” The GOP elite’s championing of the plan showed how the party had moved from the Bush era to the Tea Party era. “I fought for budget-process reforms and was thwarted by leaders in my own party,” Ryan told TIME in a 2009 interview. “I fought for earmark reform and was fought by leaders of my own party. Our party dropped the ball on fiscal issues. That doesn’t mean we should just stop trying for fiscal discipline. We need to reform our own party so that we don’t repeat that mistake.”

    (MORE: A History of Vice-Presidential Picks, from the Pages of TIME)

    He’s less conservative on social issues.
    Ryan generally avoids social issues like gay rights, a fact that has sometimes gotten him into trouble with conservative activists. In 2007 he voted for a bill that would ban employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. He explained that his vote was because he had friends “who didn’t choose to be gay … they were just created that way.” He later lamented that he “took a lot of crap” for that stance. He’s also backed versions of the Dream Act, and he voted for the auto bailout — a smart move given his representation of a district that lost nearly 17,000 jobs after GM and Chrysler shuttered facilities there.


    He’s from a swing district.
    Ryan’s congressional district in southern Wisconsin voted for Dukakis, Clinton and Obama — the latter, 51% to McCain’s 47% in 2008. But Ryan usually wins by large margins; he took 68% of the vote in 2008. The district’s economy is recovering from the Great Recession, as wealthy citizens from Chicago and Milwaukee have flocked to the region’s picturesque lake shores and gentrified urban areas, where lofts and art studios have replaced factories. It remains the home of S.C. Johnson and a few other big manufacturers. Its median annual income is $56,833, and it is 82% white.

  2. #92
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Yes... that's his one vote for ENDA (which I mentioned). Not new information.

  3. #93
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    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08...t-paul-ryan-2/

    ho knew tweeting was such fun? As soon as I learn how, I’m following Andy Borowitz–but he has some competition in yukking it up at Paul Ryan’s expense. Enjoy!

    “Ryan: Trillions Could Be Cut from Budget if We Eliminate Empathy” -Andy Borowitz on Twitter

    “Paul Ryan is Romney’s pick for VP. Perfect choice. Ryan’s a water boy for the super rich and Mitt Romney is thirsty.” -Adam McKay on Twitter

    “Let’s not let a bunch of cheap jokes about Paul Ryan looking like Eddie Munster distract us from the fact that he is a sociopath.” – Andy Borowitz

    “Paul Ryan wants to cut food for poor people. That American bastard totally stole that idea from Dad.” -KimJongNumberUn on Twitter

    “Paul Ryan has strong, unbreakable beliefs: Like the poor have it too good and billionaires just need a break.” –LOLGOP on Twitter

    “Paul Ryan made all his interns read Ayn Rand. So I guess we know where he stands on torture.” -Andy Borowitz


    “Paul Ryan seems like the kind of guy you could have a beer with, just before he takes your Medicare away.” -Mark Harris on Twitter

    “Mitt Romney choosing Paul Ryan is like putting a sheet of blank paper inside a manila envelope.” -DamienFahey on Twitter

    “Since Romney doesn’t care about poor people, he needed to balance the ticket with someone who doesn’t care about old people.” -Andy Borowitz

    “If Paul Ryan popped up in the first ten minutes of a Law and Order episode, you’d be all ‘oh, he’s the killer’.” – bazecraze on Twitter

    “Paul Ryan looks like a guy in a romantic comedy ‘bad first dates’ montage. He’s the one like, ‘Uh, excuse me, I said SPARKLING water’.” -BoobsRadley on Twitter

    “Ryan is opposed to Obamacare and Medicare. Also, the word ‘care’.” – Andy Borowitz

    “Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan To Awkwardly Hug, High Five For Next Three Months” – onion.com on Twitter
    i know little about paul at the moment, other than what i have read so far in this thread, so no real opinion on the guy.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Paul Ryan is as restrained as he can be on social issues, and still be considered a serious conservative. You can't make it on the Republican ticket if you don't say you're against abortion.
    Hmmm. OK. I'm just trying to get a pulse on what the Republican agenda is this term (the top of the Democratic ticket is old, so there isn't a new signal here).

    I think what is wrong with modern politics is that people create this "ideal" set of opinions that a person must have and that there are two (and only two) versions of this.

    It's like, if you believe later term abortions should be scrutinized a little more, all of sudden, you need to be against contraception and gay marriage too. Or if you believe that government bureaucracies are inefficient and want to do something about it, that means you should slash education budgets and privatize everything--the more radical/reactionary and "pure", the better.

    I want to go back to the way politics worked (or at least how I perceived them to work) before 2000. Checks and balances are great and all, but this partisan bickering and attempt at thought manipulation (all the way down to the facts) has to stop.

    Whichever party I believe does less of this will get all my votes this cycle. It is that important to me.

    If I believe politicians are willing to compromise, and act as individuals, I will vote based on my impressions of individual candidates. If not, and they are going to act like hive-mind controlled particrats, I am block voting for the party that is more willing to compromise, even if it is only slightly so.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    First... Secondly... So I fail to see how neither quotation from conservatives addressed things you had recently posted. Maybe I missed something since yesterday?
    But you didn't quote either one of those two things.

    You quoted (and selectively so, seeing as how you didn't quote my entire post, but excised certain parts of it, and left other parts remaining) some lines where I was responding to MacGuffin's assertion that seniors' opinions on the Ryan Plan will change to the negative (specifically, due to their potential for being duped into the false belief that the Ryan Plan would harm their Medicare coverage [which is what the administration and their friends in the media establishment are trying to paint it as doing]).

    Now as to the specifics:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    First, your previous post was a link of a debate (that particular video clip was a monologue) of Ryan claiming that Obama's budget had used smoke and mirrors. I just linked conservatives arguing that Ryan's plan was at least as bad. How was that different that what your video was addressing?
    Once again, you didn't quote that post, and my reasoning for posting that video of Ryan was as a statement to Macguffin that "this why the media won't be able to deceive the public for the next 90 days". Don't get me wrong, they will try to, cuz we all know that they're pulling for Obama like it's nobody's business, but Ryan has a strong enough command of the facts, and is a powerful enough speaker when discussing the issues, that, given the mic and the stage for the next three months, the administration and CBS/NBC/ABC/MSNBC/CNN will find it increasingly difficult to pull the wool over the public's (and, more to the point of that post: seniors') eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Secondly, you had previously argued that supply-side techniques (in particular, things to increase employer confidence) were applicable to the current crisis (resulting from the housing crisis), and I just referenced a conservative arguing that the problem was more on the demand side.
    I read Frum's analysis of the Ryan Plan at the Daily Beast a few days ago, and, frankly, I was not impressed. The man has a degree in history, not in economics, and, I can assure you, if we were to have a discussion about the causes of and solutions to this recession, I would be the one spinning circles around him. Based on his writing and analysis, his understanding of the topic is really not that strong.

    But thanks for reminding me that I owe you a response to your post from the other day. I'm not sure what you took from my non-response, but it certainly wasn't indicative of an inability to respond. I read the first paragraph, realized I could annihilate your argument, but was drunk and going to sleep on a friend's couch, and spent the entire next day recovering/watching the Olympics.

    I'm not sure exactly what you meant by "alternative facts", but, so you know, I'm essentially an authority on this topic, and there was nothing "alternative" about what I wrote. I could delineate a dozen or more highly relevant reasons as to the causes of this recession (and was loudly warning of this impending collapse to anyone who would listen [and plenty who wouldn't] since 2004), and those ones I pointed out are among them, and happen to be those that people of a more supply-side, fiscally-conservative, Austrian economics perspective will be apt to focus on. But that doesn't make them any less true. As I acknowledged in my post, and do so regularly to those of a more Austrian persuasion, lack of demand is a genuine part of our current malaise, and in the same way the Austrians have their issues they tend to focus on, this is one of the issues the Keynesians tend to focus on. I've studied both systems of thought, among many others (Smith, Ricardo, Marx, Schumpeter, von Mises, Hayek, Rothbard, Friedman, Minsky, and many more), and I'm not beholden to either, see the benefits and drawbacks of each, and incorporate them all into my understanding of what it is we are going through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I still agree that Ryan is intelligent, articulate and personable (as I stated previously). That has little to do with the seriousness of his plan.
    As I already stated, I have issue with his plan, as presented. I was on Ryan's jock long before most anybody knew his name, and got off it as soon as he released the first version of the plan, some years ago. I have written about my reasons for not liking it elsewhere on this forum. Still, it is an actual solution (even if some of the tax policy details need to be worked out, and there are things I don't like about it) to our long-term fiscal problem, and is the only one that has thus far been presented. Or do you know of some plan that the administration is holding onto, but for some reason has not made public, that solves our long run fiscal situation?



    As I already said in this thread, I don't believe the current Ryan Plan is meant to be the final plan. It was intended to be a starting point for negotiation with the Democrats. And, as we all know, when one enters into a negotiation, one does not make one's first offer at the true point where one expects to end up. You either play high-ball or low-ball, depending on which side of the negotiation you are on. And, in that vein, Ryan's proposal is to the right of anything that will be enacted. But at least he has brought a serious plan to the table. Obama is the sitting President of the United States, presiding over the worst economy in 80 years (recovery from which, whether you acknowledge it or not, is hampered by our unsustainable long-term fiscal situation), but has yet to do so.

    That, Seymour, is not only a failure of leadership, it is a dereliction of duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    (BTW, I don't think Obama is perfect. He could be far better on civil liberties, privacy, indefinite detention, etc... I just believe he's better than the alternatives currently available.)
    He's an idiot when it comes to economics.

    And the economy is what ails us.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Yes... that's his one vote for ENDA (which I mentioned). Not new information.
    I wasn't trying to give you new information.

    Show me where Obama has meaningfully reduced the tendency of the government to grow without end. To never ask if that new program you created on a whim is worth the 162 million we spend on it year after year.

    What steps has he taken to bend the cost curve in health care down that have actually bent the cost curve down?

    Explain to me in detail how the ACA doesn't make our sustainability problem worse.

    What happened to the above the mudslinging high mindedness of 2008.

    Is Obama as much of a slave to reelection as every other politician since the inception of the profession?

    Let's play this game.

  7. #97
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Seems like a safe choice, in that it's pretty neutral. It won't win/lose a demographic that wasn't already supportive of the GOP.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Seems like a safe choice, in that it's pretty neutral. It won't win/lose a demographic that wasn't already supportive of the GOP.
    It won't even win Iowa?

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  9. #99
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    I'm voting for Obama.


    I'm a Libertarian. And I view voting for Obama as the lesser of two evils (and I mean that literally regarding Romney, and figuratively regarding Obama).
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  10. #100

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    I am a swing voter (though not in a swing state for the presidential election), and my initial impressions of Ryan are positive. I still know very little about him, though.

    I know many Democrats dislike him because he created an economic plan that was drastically different from what the White House wanted. I know little about his plan because all sources that both gives the facts and what those facts will mean for me and the people I care about (I am not an economist, so I need things digested a bit) seem to use heavily biased language. I forget who said it, but having a plan at all is a positive.

    If the plan really does have ridiculous things in it like many of its detractors say, then the Ryan plan would turn into a negative. If the plan seems bought by cronies in someway (I know nobody will do a fair analysis, but once I get a foothold of understanding, I will follow the money using my own means), it would be really bad.

    If despite the positives, the Republicans seem like the party of less compromise, they will still loose my votes anyways.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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