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  1. #1
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Default China

    China is the worst!

    I've never been, but I don't have to go.

    Who am I to say China stinks? A Brit, that's who.


    China are wrong, and their infostructure is a testiment to how wrong they are.



    Let's see.


    In China, it matters where you're born in China, where you're born in China is the difference between getting Health Care and Education and not.

    A toddler got hit and killed by a van and 20 people walking by just walked by before the 21st person alerted the mother!

    They adopt their Olympic team.

    They had rain the other week, and their shitty growth spurting city couldn't cope with a little rain, the only dry place in Bejing that wasn't flooded was this ancient palace/city.
    They produce cheap rip offs and possess terrible infostructure.

    China are wrong, they have NO child labour laws, no human rights and ethics in China, from a Limey's point of view; is just f**ked up.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    There are reasons to be concerned about China's bids for dominance but you dont actually mention them, these are just a list of pretty tabloid attacks on the place, some of what you mention, like the post code lottery in health, is just as true of the UK. For instance in the UK children taken into care will have vastly different outcomes between districts, even within districts. As US libertarian capitalists are fond of tell me there's seriously uneven dental and health coverage and facilities.

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    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Coincidentally, I've been thinking about China today. Here in the U.S., we really learn very little about China in school--which is odd, considering its influential position in the world throughout almost all of human history. Skipping the history of central Africa or something might make sense from a view of "influential impact," but skipping the history of China doesn't, to me.

    My Chinese immigrant co-worker tells me that in school, they are taught about the major cultures of the world and their history, including ours.

    Going to read more about them this weekend.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There are reasons to be concerned about China's bids for dominance...
    Who cares about that when China can't even take care of themselfs?

    They may have a 10% GDP, but at what cost?
    The global community should do what America did against Cuba, but alas, it's all about money, and not politics, that's why we buy from their sweatshops. Ethics, is kind of relative, what you can do in India or China, you can't do in the UK.


    I'm not going to put China up on a pedestal @Lark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Coincidentally, I've been thinking about China today. Here in the U.S., we really learn very little about China in school--which is odd, considering its influential position in the world throughout almost all of human history. Skipping the history of central Africa or something might make sense from a view of "influential impact," but skipping the history of China doesn't, to me.

    My Chinese immigrant co-worker tells me that in school, they are taught about the major cultures of the world and their history, including ours.

    Going to read more about them this weekend.
    To be honest they have vast superiority in terms of basic social norms and mores, basic convivality and conformity to legal sanctions and social obligations, vastly superior intergenerational understanding and consensus.

    While the sometimes insanely authoritarian and punitive measures the regime is apt to deal in are reported widely in the west, such as berching a foreign delinquent who scraped up a car, other forms of corporal punishment for both adults and children and a pretty free hand with the old executions what isnt reported is that these things are massively popular in China.

    The conservatives in China are frequently left-authoritarians who peddle popular nostalgia for phony good times supposedly had in the days of Mao and the cultural revolution. When you get a guy holding out against forced corporate or foreign investor eviction from his piss poor tenament block he's usually a card carrying and flag waving commie. A real flip side to the western world in some ways.

    There has only been accurate reporting of the whole student protests culminating in the army running tanks into and over some of them in that square lately and many in the west still dont know how willing to take them seriously and seek to co-opt that movement the political establishment were, they were prepared to deal with any serious plan worked out by an clearly appointed representatives but were not prepared to deal with a disorganised rabble lacking a single idea or policy in common, the action itself did not happen until the state was sure that public opinion had finally turned against their opposition. Things like "Tank Man" can be and are perceived very differently in peasant communes or in places with the direst conditions, like living in virtual caves carved from mud and rock, that guy was a suit obstructing the lawful authority to people in those jurisdictions.

    I'm not condoning it I'm just saying its how it is, also they have the most ambitious and motivated and willing to learn population and none of the slacker and anti-social delinquent youth which western nations have, in fact I've known their young people to be absolutely baffled by the behaviour or norms of western youth of a similar age and background to them.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    Who cares about that when China can't even take care of themselfs?

    They may have a 10% GDP, but at what cost?
    The global community should do what America did against Cuba, but alas, it's all about money, and not politics, that's why we buy from their sweatshops. Ethics, is kind of relative, what you can do in India or China, you can't do in the UK.


    I'm not going to put China up on a pedestal @Lark
    I'm sorry what?

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    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    I always thought it would be nice to have a visit to China. China's not that bad. Simply, the individual lifestyle is dependent on the individual and I imagine it would be difficult to generalise an outcome of how it'd be if you lived there. Focusing on all the bad points without the good points is a little unfair on the balance. They have their traditions, martial arts, food, teas and other cultural aspects. Different places in China have a different cultural flavour than others. Some kinder, more extraverted, more introverted, more happy, more upset, more secular, more traditional and all other traits. I'm sure there are areas in China where if that baby situation happened, most around would hold themselves very concerned as opposed to what was seen in that unfortunate time. I presume that I personally would enjoy China in certain areas, be neutral in others and dislike the remaining.

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    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Who cares about China taking over the world, it rained in Beijing and all their new buildings and streets that have sprung up so rapidily, failed so much. Floods and chaos, over a little rain. Their Human rights stink and people in the west are like 'Oh no, China' well, what's so great about trading with a country that'll work a 6yr old for under 1 USD $ a day 20 hours a day? - That's what I'm saying, ethics are relative. What goes in China, doesn't go in the UK, for example; Here, you gotta be 16 before you work part time to full time.

    Get real, China stinks. They make cheap crappy fakes too, China haven't earned my respect yet, as a state.
    You pay $1 into China, you'd get a 10% return, that's why we put up with it.

    I mean, most shocking of all, 20 people in China walked by as a toddler died, I know they have a billion people, but because of that, they've lost touch with what is real.

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    China is a complicated place, and the issues you describe are not as simple as they seem on the surface. For instance, China does not have good Samaritan laws, and attempting to help people in distress could result in life-ruining legal problems. Further from that, high population density results in an exaggerated bystander effect, regardless of where you are. These two things put together help explain why people did not assist that child. In the Western countries a similar situation might have happened because people were afraid of being labelled a kidnapper or pedophile.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    That's certainly a more balanced view.

    I think the OP is on affect overload right now and cant really discuss the topic without foaming at the mouth like a rabid jingo.

    There are things about their possible dominance in world affairs which certainly would concern me, for one it would be one of the first none english speaking world hegemons, I dont believe this would result in something like what was portrayed in Fire Fly, I hated the US neo-con politics of that show, really did. Although that aside I'm aware, no matter how much I may consider the perfidy of the UK and US in foreign affairs to be reprehensible that I've benefited from it, as a member of an english speaking nation I have directly or indirectly benefited from the cultural hegemony and geo-political control of the Pax Americana and Washington Consensus.

    The power of Market Maoism abroad has strengthened the hand of neo-liberals at home, in the US the state has tried to use Eminent Domain legislation to mirror the practices of the Chinese in compulsory purchase orders to confiscate land and property for private corporations, the UK has done so too, in Ireland it may be used to permit Donald Trump to turn a massive part of the country into his own private golf course.

    There are plenty of the politicians prepared to make the argument for driving welfare spending even lower to bring it in line with third world wage and benefits settlements worked out by government unions and state planners in China. Competition between welfare regimes is not that great really, its a cover for an agenda they've wanted to push for years, there are plenty of reasons why business is not wholesale going to take flight to China, the language thing for one, technical expertise (although that is assailable) and the amount of rip of merchandise and lack of regulation of copyright (less unassailable as industrial esponiage may happen to be state esponiage given the way the mixed state-capitalist institutions operate).

    Of greatest concern to me would be the extent to which the Chinese still seriously popularly and academically maintain that they are human and everyone else in the world are a different species descended from a different primeval off shoot, as close in ancestry to the chinese as great apes are. That goes beyond assertions of cultural or ethnical distinctiveness and the whole thing stems from the era of the Nazi racial "scientists" cataloging of seperately evolved "racial species" anyway. That's really concerning.

    All that said the Chinese were once allies to both the US and UK against the USSR, they are credited with resisting the USSR in Red Dawn in such a way that prevents the wholesale destruction of the US and western world by nuclear weapons, now I think that's a lot wrong with that propaganda movie and it really has just entertainment value to me but the US and UK took it seriously that the Chinese were, even in the days of Mao, different to the soviets in many, many respects. Those differences with Russia remain.

    Also does anyone know what the Chinese response to 9/11 was and why there hasnt been an Islamic threat to the most athiestic regime in the world (seriously this place would make most western secular athiestic liberals want to take a cold shower)? When 9/11 happened the Chinese just took the eleven or twelve most serious Islamic terrorist they had in custody out and summarily executed them, that's a pretty serious "look, that shit isnt going to happen here alright" message if ever there was one.

    Along with the disciplined order things I mentioned before western investors and capitalists love that sort of thing, seriously, they want treasure islands were their money will be safe, China looks like it, when the UK threatened to discipline the partly nationalised banks by cutting wages or benefits to CEOs China signalled what the future was likely to be like when they get their financial districts developed by inviting the targetted professionals to come work with them were they wouldnt receive that sort of sanction. It was straight up economic warfare.

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