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  1. #11
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    China is a complicated place, and the issues you describe are not as simple as they seem on the surface. For instance, China does not have good Samaritan laws, and attempting to help people in distress could result in life-ruining legal problems. Further from that, high population density results in an exaggerated bystander effect, regardless of where you are. These two things put together help explain why people did not assist that child. In the Western countries a similar situation might have happened because people were afraid of being labelled a kidnapper or pedophile.
    That's just messed up. The fact that there's cultral reasons and taboos that end up you carrying on as normal if you see a child hit and ran over twice if it's not your own.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    Who cares about China taking over the world, it rained in Beijing and all their new buildings and streets that have sprung up so rapidily, failed so much. Floods and chaos, over a little rain. Their Human rights stink and people in the west are like 'Oh no, China' well, what's so great about trading with a country that'll work a 6yr old for under 1 USD $ a day 20 hours a day? - That's what I'm saying, ethics are relative. What goes in China, doesn't go in the UK, for example; Here, you gotta be 16 before you work part time to full time.

    Get real, China stinks. They make cheap crappy fakes too, China haven't earned my respect yet, as a state.
    You pay $1 into China, you'd get a 10% return, that's why we put up with it.

    I mean, most shocking of all, 20 people in China walked by as a toddler died, I know they have a billion people, but because of that, they've lost touch with what is real.
    If there's chaos in China because of rain and flooding it certainly sounds like here in the UK and NI. Maybe the Russians are seeding their airspace with silver iodine and making it rain too, what do you think? Oh, you dont know or mind about the Russian bomber fly overs of the UK paraliament or government buildings, including balmoral, did you not hear about that?

    Why do you think that could be? Do you think that it suits some interests very well if you hate on the Chinese and are bricking it about them? You mightnt notice the slow motion take over or selling off of every UK national asset there is that way.

    Tell me what you think of this, the children are not employed in the UK, instead they are neglected, maltreated, possibly molested (the UK leads some of Europe on child protection concerns and failings) and grow into delinquent unemployed, often unemployable, youth whose lack of basic social competence bars them from work and much of life, they then get involved in domestic violence, alcoholism, drugs and early pregnancies, the cycle of bad parenting and broken homes perpetuates itself possibly with birth defects thrown in (fetal alcohol syndrome and nicotene retarded fetal development, not to mention opiate and other drug dependency in unborn babies, are all on the rise in the UK). Objectively now, which is the worse scenario?

    In any case I'm dubious about the children being sweated labour because while I know there is diversity in some of the peasant communes or free market districts I also know they have some fairly strict communal schooling norms, seriously strict, school attendence is noted and abscence, including abscence working, is not tolerated, they also have national service from their early adolescence and so can not be working then either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    China is a complicated place, and the issues you describe are not as simple as they seem on the surface. For instance, China does not have good Samaritan laws, and attempting to help people in distress could result in life-ruining legal problems. Further from that, high population density results in an exaggerated bystander effect, regardless of where you are. These two things put together help explain why people did not assist that child. In the Western countries a similar situation might have happened because people were afraid of being labelled a kidnapper or pedophile.
    As I am sure they have, I've worked in the field of training people in the permissable use of physical restraints with children and adolescents and some of the responses I've read in the literature from your average citizen when asked about what they would do if they saw a child run towards traffic for instance are surprising. The major response is wait and see if another person will act.

  4. #14
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Where you're born, in China, literally the 'post code' if you will, determines what quality of life you get... Born in one area, you're entitled to schooling and health care, born in another, it's like you don't exist at all and have no rights @Lark

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    Where you're born, in China, literally the 'post code' if you will, determines what quality of life you get... Born in one area, you're enetitled to schooling and health care, born in another, it's like you don't exist at all and have no rights @Lark
    I'm being perfectly serious with you now, do you believe that it is different in the UK and can you support it if you do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    Who am I to say China stinks? A Brit, that's who.
    Not a cool thing to say, when only a hundred years ago, the Brits were making the Chinese run around in rickshaws and whipping them like animals. If I could find the old black and white videos of this, you'd be pissed.

    Regardless of their infrastructure, I admire them for trying to find themselves (rather than on colonial or Japanese terms), and emerging as they have. And it seems they aren't afraid to work out the kinks of the systems they've adopted (they're not truly communist, and they've gradually done away with atheism as well).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm being perfectly serious with you now, do you believe that it is different in the UK and can you support it if you do?
    Are you talking about the Post Code Lottery in the NHS, granted, I'm from London and have SE19 on my Birth Cert (which doesn't mean much)... I just wonder, is that what you mean?

    Where you live is the difference between quaility of care, and, where I happen to live, is pretty darn spiffy, you mean that?


    ... I'm thinking you must mean that @Lark



    And, @KDude
    Yeah, you may admire China all you want, just know when our countries trade with China, it's because they're cheap and affordable, and the reason why it's so cheap and affordable is Human Rights, or, lack of. I don't care what the Brits did 100 years ago if last October, a toddler dies in public and no one looks twice. All their shitty infostructer and cheap knock offs can't compare to how shocking that was. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-ignored-dies/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    Are you talking about the Post Code Lottery in the NHS, granted, I'm from London and have SE19 on my Birth Cert (which doesn't mean much)... I just wonder, is that what you mean?

    Where you live is the difference between quaility of care, and, where I happen to live, is pretty darn spiffy, you mean that?
    In part but you are bound to know about the north-south divide in prosperity in England even or the London vs. everywhere else in terms of tax, welfare and services, the scottish do no crave independence, if they do, for no reason or for purely misty eyed patriotic reasons, NI gets forgotten about by most UK mainland commentators but the coverage here is not exactly the same as the rest of the UK and it is all getting pulled by London and its cuts too.

    NI has many legacies from the troubles which were not simply the work of the IRA (the first bombings and police officer shot being the work of pro-government loyalist paramilitaries), UK intelligence agencies and military operatives were in NI to their necks, it was even considered a major theatre of Cold War conflict at a time and town planning is even marked by counter insurgency concerns.

    So far as human rights go, the UK conservatives and liberals have done A LOT to try and discredit European human rights law and the idea of human rights per se, the reason being that they want to do away with the statutory obligations which require them to fund social services for children because of the way in which the right to life and protection from being summarily killed is interpreted as requiring the government to provide child protection.

    If the UK tories could get sufficient support for ditching it all they would, they would even leave the European Union to do so, it would mean massive cuts in social services and health spending which would mean even more unemployment for many employed in that capacity, even less services so possibly even more child abuse, child murder and even people trafficking or children being sold. All of which is fine with the New Right which were the rank and file supporters of Thatcher and Thatcherism within the conservative party, the "big society" is just a misnomer for "small state" which means state which does not have any binding obligations under human rights law, especially not were it costs tax money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    Are you talking about the Post Code Lottery in the NHS, granted, I'm from London and have SE19 on my Birth Cert (which doesn't mean much)... I just wonder, is that what you mean?

    Where you live is the difference between quaility of care, and, where I happen to live, is pretty darn spiffy, you mean that?


    ... I'm thinking you must mean that @Lark



    And, @KDude
    Yeah, you may admire China all you want, just know when our countries trade with China, it's because they're cheap and affordable, and the reason why it's so cheap and affordable is Human Rights, or, lack of. I don't care what the Brits did 100 years ago if last October, a toddler dies in public and no one looks twice. All their shitty infostructer and cheap knock offs can't compare to how shocking that was. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-ignored-dies/
    I think you mean infrastructure BTW.

    I didnt read him say that he admired China, were did you read that? Or did you just reach that conclusion because he didnt join the Orwellian two minutes hate on the Chinese you had planned?

    What were you imagining when you started this discussion man because the frenzied hating on China is sort of a road block to discussing anything at all. Did you think that people would read your OP and get all worked up and start baying for blood? A short cut to "bomb the dinks/gooks back to the stone age", "daisy cutter them, then see how they feel about ignoring a child in traffic"?

  10. #20
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    And, @KDude
    Yeah, you may admire China all you want, just know when our countries trade with China, it's because they're cheap and affordable, and the reason why it's so cheap and affordable is Human Rights, or, lack of. I don't care what the Brits did 100 years ago if last October, a toddler dies in public and no one looks twice. All their shitty infostructer and cheap knocks can't compare to how disturbing that was. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-ignored-dies/
    lol, I'm not a spokesman for China. You don't need to address it like that. I'm not even a socialist. I'm saying that stating China sucks "Because I'm a Brit" is about the most bizarre reason you can come up with.

    As for some of their wonky class schemes, even those are subject to change. Those are secular laws. It's even worse in India, which has a sacred caste system, that has been challenged for milennia, with barely much change to it.

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