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  1. #61
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't see the big dichtomy between Liberty and Mary. I don't even know what archetype Mary is supposed to be in the first place? I look at what we knew of her in the narratives, and what we know, generally speaking, about young women in early Palestine. At the very least, I just get a very human image of a pious girl. I don't really see the archetype. Do you mean something like Isis? A majestic motherly figure? I don't care about any of that. It seems to have nothing to do with an actual person. Secondly, I don't know why she'd be against "Liberty". Lastly, what the hell archetype is Pussy Riot? They're just some rock band. Why are they more than that? And why am I being told I have to follow one of them? Is it possible that I can get the option to just go about my day not giving a shit?

  2. #62
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    @Victor You mistake your personal symbolism for universal symbolism. It's alienating and icky, even if whatever view you were expressing happened to be benign.

  3. #63
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The Illiad and the Archetypes

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't see the big dichtomy between Liberty and Mary. I don't even know what archetype Mary is supposed to be in the first place? I look at what we knew of her in the narratives, and what we know, generally speaking, about young women in early Palestine. At the very least, I just get a very human image of a pious girl. I don't really see the archetype. Do you mean something like Isis? A majestic motherly figure? I don't care about any of that. It seems to have nothing to do with an actual person. Secondly, I don't know why she'd be against "Liberty". Lastly, what the hell archetype is Pussy Riot? They're just some rock band. Why are they more than that? And why am I being told I have to follow one of them? Is it possible that I can get the option to just go about my day not giving a shit?
    As a literate, you can ignore the archetypes, but in the electronic culture, the archetypes won't ignore you.

    Read the Illiad the perfect expression of the old spoken culture, and you will find it begins with an achetype, a Greek god, intervening.

    And all through the Illiad the archetypes intervene in the lives of men and women.

    And as we move deeper into the new electronic culture, we will follow the archetypes more and more.

    I find it strange that you think the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, is not an archetype, when she is in fact the quintessential archetype, followed by spoken Western culture for almost 2,000 years.

    And being the quintiessential archetype, the Virgin is aped by the Statue of Liberty.

    To say you, "don't give a shit" is simply vulgar, and so I wonder what your interest is in this thread.

  4. #64
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    @Victor You mistake your personal symbolism for universal symbolism. It's alienating and icky, even if whatever view you were expressing happened to be benign.
    The Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, is a public symbol and has been a public symbol and archetype for 2,000 years.

    And the Statue of Liberty is public symbol, an archetype recognised by everyone.

    And now Pussy Riot is now a public symbol across the world thanks to the electronic media. And has now been elevated to an archetype to be followed by brave and imaginative your women and even young men, everywhere.

  5. #65
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I find it strange that you think the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, is not an archetype, when she is in fact the quintessential archetype, followed by spoken Western culture for almost 2,000 years.
    I don't concern myself with what culture wants to say about something. I want to get the bottom of the story, who the actual people were like, or could've been like.. down to what kind of houses they lived in, what food they ate, what their days were like, and what the political climate was. Same with Jesus. Although some theories are flawed, I find the studies into the historical Jesus far more interesting than "Jesus Christ", the lofty archetypal figure glowing on top of a mountain, who has no real connection to humanity. In the same sense, I'm more interested about Mary from the historical perspective.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't concern myself with what culture wants to say about something. I want to get the bottom of the story, who the actual people were like, or could've been like.. down to what kind of houses they lived in, what food they ate, what their days were like, and what the political climate was. Same with Jesus. Although some theories are flawed, I find the studies into the historical Jesus far more interesting than "Jesus Christ", the lofty archetypal figure glowing on top of a mountain, who has no real connection to humanity. In the same sense, I'm more interested about Mary from the historical perspective.
    Ever since we achieved universal literacy in the West less than 200 years ago, we have been looking for the historical Jesus.

    And it is only natural that the literate are literal minded, and so go looking fo the literal, historical Jesus.

    However for almost all of the 2,000 years of Christianity, we have been a spoken culture and not a literate culture, and so the literal, historical Jesus did not influence Christianity until we became literate only a short time ago.

    So for almost 2,000 years it was the archtypical Jesus and his Mother, the Virgin Mary, who were followed in Christianity.

    So we began in the spoken culture, and for a short time we have live in a literate culture, but now we are entering the electronic culture which is very much like the old spoken culture. And so we will become less interested in the literal Jesus and Mary and more interested in the archetypal Jesus and Mary.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In February, 2012, Pussy Riot, the Russian girl band, entered Moscow's largest church, Christ the Saviour Cathedral, danced, sang and prayed to the Virgin Mary to rid them of President Putin.

    But notice Pussy Riot did not ask the Statue of Liberty to rid them of Putin, because the Statue of Liberty is a calculated insult to the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God.

    Yes, the Statue of Liberty is a copy of statue of a prostitute enthroned in Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, France, to mock the Virgin Mary.

    But the most fascinating thing is that no American child is ever told that the Statue of Liberty mocks the Virgin Mary.
    "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

    The lesson: do not condemn the person, but prudently judge the deed. A prostitute is not a mockery, nor is sculpting a prostitute a mockery unless it is mocking the prostitute.

  8. #68
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    This is worth the read.

    Pussy Riot Closing Statements
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #69
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This is worth the read.

    Pussy Riot Closing Statements
    It is worth the read. Rather poignant.

    On a more humorous note, I could totally fit through those bars.

  10. #70
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    What I want to know is why didn't pussy riot pray to the road sign by my house.

    This whole statue of liberty thing is amazingly random.

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