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  1. #11
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Oh, my.
    Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

  2. #12
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Go to Paris France yourself and see the statue that was enthroned in Notre Dame Cathedral and ask, who was the statue modelled on?
    You come here and go to Giant's Stadium and find Jimmy Hoffa first.

    In all seriousness though, I know what you're talking about. In the French Revolution the Cathedral was defaced, and Virgin Mary was replaced with Lady Liberty. Quite true. Their intent was probably as you say considering the circumstances.

    However, it's just a statue. It means something different now. Getting that far caught up in symbolism is ridiculous I must say.

  3. #13
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    You come here and go to Giant's Stadium and find Jimmy Hoffa first.

    In all seriousness though, I know what you're talking about. In the French Revolution the Cathedral was defaced, and Virgin Mary was replaced with Lady Liberty. Quite true. Their intent was probably as you say considering the circumstances.

    However, it's just a statue. It means something different now. Getting that far caught up in symbolism is ridiculous I must say.
    And so the history of the Statue of Liberty remains silent, and glorious propaganda reigns.

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Not really a valid response.
    What I am hinting at is that you are taught propaganda at school and you keep repeating it here with all the pride of obedient children.

  5. #15
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And so the history of the Statue of Liberty remains silent, and glorious propaganda reigns.
    How is it silent? You just told everyone and I somewhat confirmed it.

    I'm not clear on the prostitute thing, but minor detail as far as I'm concerned. People who get that insulted over statues have some problems IMO.

  6. #16
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    Frankly I find Victor's suggestion hilarious and it kind of amazes me that people are so offended by him saying it.

  7. #17
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  8. #18
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Frankly I find Victor's suggestion hilarious and it kind of amazes me that people are so offended by him saying it.
    Yeah.

    I mean, if Liberty were really a statue of Hitler in drag, I'd say that statue needs to go.

    But it isn't. Liberty is a fictional character and the history is only in context of people doing things with it and giving it meaning. Hitler was a real guy who did real things. Liberty only means something because we say she does, and we also get to say what she means.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yeah.

    I mean, if Liberty were really a statue of Hitler in drag, I'd say that statue needs to go.

    But it isn't. Liberty is a fictional character and the history is only in context of people doing things with it and giving it meaning. Hitler was a real guy who did real things. Liberty only means something because we say she does, and we also get to say what she means.
    Yeah, I agree.


  10. #20
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Frankly I find Victor's suggestion hilarious and it kind of amazes me that people are so offended by him saying it.
    I'm not offended. He's just not being accurate. And he further muddies up the conversation by projecting that anyone who argues against him is an "obedient" child, fed by propaganda. As if everything is so black and white. He probably cares more about America than I do. When I was a child, my dad pulled my ear for not standing for the National Anthem. I mean, I'm hardly the person you could call a "patriot". Victor lives in a world though where everyone is some representative of some stereotype or construct. "All Americans are this way." "All Americans learned this way." "All Protestants are this." "All Australians are this." etc. He destroys dialogue when he does this.

    Anyways, I think these few sentences are already too long of a reply. Just typing probably makes me seem "upset". I'm not. I'm typing this in bed. Eating a banana nut muffin. Everything's cool.

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