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  1. #11

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    The ends don't justify the means. I realize laws are made to protect the public from each other. But this seems like he's attempting to legislate minutia.

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  2. #12

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    Attempting to micro-manage your voter's lives is a pretty bad idea.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  3. #13
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I KNEW there was something fishy about the way this was being interpreted, so I did some poking around. The perception that all formula will be stockpiled in hospitals to be signed out like medicine is not accurate at all. Number one, Latch On is a VOLUNTARY program. The very first post in this thread says so. If a hospital participates in Latch On, then the formula IN the hospital will be dispensed as needed, rather than being given to all new mothers, even the ones who express a desire to breastfeed (which, currently, 90% of them do). Baby formula will still be available at retail locations as it always has been. The only change is that formula companies will not be able to give away formula in gift bags to new mothers in hospitals, which I totally support.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I KNEW there was something fishy about the way this was being interpreted, so I did some poking around. The perception that all formula will be stockpiled in hospitals to be signed out like medicine is not accurate at all. Number one, Latch On is a VOLUNTARY program. The very first post in this thread says so. If a hospital participates in Latch On, then the formula IN the hospital will be dispensed as needed, rather than being given to all new mothers, even the ones who express a desire to breastfeed (which, currently, 90% of them do). Baby formula will still be available at retail locations as it always has been. The only change is that formula companies will not be able to give away formula in gift bags to new mothers in hospitals, which I totally support.
    I found it really odd when I was in the hospital and my lovely little gift bag contained formula. The nurses in the hospital would basically belittle anyone that didn't want to even try to breastfeed.... So I found it odd that the gift bags had formula in them... It didn't bother me at all, I just found it odd. The handy dandy little tote with ice pack came in handy for pumped milk though.

    What I found to be annoying was the formula companies mailing out full size "samples" of formula every month to me. I'm not even sure how they got my name and address... Or my husband's name, because he got a box of "samples" one day...that was amusing.

    From my experience... If people want to promote breastfeeding over formula feeding...they need to train some of the lactation consultants to be more compassionate and understanding. I nearly gave up after 3-4 months because the lactation consultants were condescending and quite frankly stressed me the f*** out. When I stopped going to them, my supply improved....how shocking. A lot of my issues were stress driven...and the stress was from the hospital.


  5. #15
    FigerPuppet
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    Sounds like a good idea. Stop being so lazy and start breast feeding, American women. I'm talking about the ones that can but won't, and the ones who would be able to do so given some effort. Charles Manson wasn't breastfed - do you want your kids to turn out like him?

    Sometimes, when people cannot stop hurting themselves or those around them, the state will have to interfere. This is why we put suicide-cases in an asylum.

  6. #16
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    From my experience... If people want to promote breastfeeding over formula feeding...they need to train some of the lactation consultants to be more compassionate and understanding. I nearly gave up after 3-4 months because the lactation consultants were condescending and quite frankly stressed me the f*** out. When I stopped going to them, my supply improved....how shocking. A lot of my issues were stress driven...and the stress was from the hospital.
    Word UP. Why they gotta be so haughty? I've thought about studying to become one myself. I'm very enthusiastic about breastfeeding, helping mothers who want to breastfeed succeed, and clearing up myths and misconceptions. But I've known so many women who were lectured and condescended to, and they were TRYING to breastfeed and just wanted help! And if someone is well-informed and just doesn't want to breastfeed for whatever reason, that is completely not my business and thus I will not be a bitch about it. I know where I end and she begins.

    Same is true about LLL. I loved many things about the organization, but the way they present breastfeeding as all-or-nothing (either you do it our way, or you are doing it wrong) was MADDENING. I was a LLL leader and I quit because I was not allowed to go "off-message" to tell mothers things like "yeah, it sometimes just hurts in the beginning, that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong" and there was absolutely no compromise with people who for example worked and couldn't pump efficiently or didn't want to.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Word UP. Why they gotta be so haughty? I've thought about studying to become one myself. I'm very enthusiastic about breastfeeding, helping mothers who want to breastfeed succeed, and clearing up myths and misconceptions. But I've known so many women who were lectured and condescended to, and they were TRYING to breastfeed and just wanted help! And if someone is well-informed and just doesn't want to breastfeed for whatever reason, that is completely not my business and thus I will not be a bitch about it. I know where I end and she begins.

    Same is true about LLL. I loved many things about the organization, but the way they present breastfeeding as all-or-nothing (either you do it our way, or you are doing it wrong) was MADDENING. I was a LLL leader and I quit because I was not allowed to go "off-message" to tell mothers things like "yeah, it sometimes just hurts in the beginning, that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong" and there was absolutely no compromise with people who for example worked and couldn't pump efficiently or didn't want to.
    What blew my mind was my MIL... When I was struggling in the beginning she was super supportive and encouraging and basically told me to just do my best for however long I could.... And then she went through the training to become a consultant and she did a 180 on me! When I told her, I was probably going to have to wean soon because it just wasn't going well at all anymore she told me how I needed to try harder and to not give up no matter what until at least one year... WTH? She went from supportive to demanding just like that. Forget the fact that my daughter wasn't even on the growth charts anymore and was only gaining a pound every two months... When I weaned her, she was still small, but I did notice an increase in her weight gain...

    And it definitely wasn't for lack of trying.... I was on supplements... I feel like I ate oatmeal for breakfast, lunch, and dinner... I nursed and pumped afterward... I pumped through the night... I was pretty much the poster child for trying everything I could and still didn't make it a full year.

    I never did try an LLL group. I think the consultants turned me off so much I just went about doing my own research. I really, really wish there were more people in the consultation field that were understanding. I dealt with ONE out of FIVE consultants that didn't make me cry when I left! I really should have sent a thank you note to her for being so compassionate and helpful.

    Oh, and totally get ya about someone being well-informed and just not wanting to... My best friend is that way. She's made it very clear that she has no desire to breastfeed, she has read all the benefits and she's okay with formula feeding anyway. Her dad is retired from Mead Johnson, so they get free formula... Honestly, can't say I blame her from that aspect! If you don't need to pump BM, that means no need to buy or rent a pump, and no need to worry about an embarrassing moment at work (almost had a coworker walk in on me...and the door was locked)!


  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I KNEW there was something fishy about the way this was being interpreted, so I did some poking around. The perception that all formula will be stockpiled in hospitals to be signed out like medicine is not accurate at all. Number one, Latch On is a VOLUNTARY program. The very first post in this thread says so. If a hospital participates in Latch On, then the formula IN the hospital will be dispensed as needed, rather than being given to all new mothers, even the ones who express a desire to breastfeed (which, currently, 90% of them do). Baby formula will still be available at retail locations as it always has been.
    Thanks for doing the digging, this sounded off to me as well upon viewing the thread.

    The only change is that formula companies will not be able to give away formula in gift bags to new mothers in hospitals, which I totally support.
    I support this as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    My best friend is that way. She's made it very clear that she has no desire to breastfeed, she has read all the benefits and she's okay with formula feeding anyway. Her dad is retired from Mead Johnson, so they get free formula...
    If you're at all able to convince her to nurse for at least 10 days though, the baby will get colostrum, and with the the innumerable immune benefits that go along with it.

    From Wikipedia:
    Newborns have very immature digestive systems, and colostrum delivers its nutrients in a very concentrated low-volume form. It has a mild laxative effect, encouraging the passing of the baby's first stool, which is called meconium. This clears excess bilirubin, a waste-product of dead red blood cells, which is produced in large quantities at birth due to blood volume reduction, from the infant's body and helps prevent jaundice. Colostrum is known to contain antibodies called immunoglobulins such as IgA, IgG, and IgM in mammals. IgA is absorbed through the intestinal epithelium, travels through the blood, and is secreted onto other Type 1 mucosal surfaces. These are the major components of the adaptive immune system. Other immune components of colostrum include the major components of the innate immune system, such as lactoferrin,[4] lysozyme,[5] lactoperoxidase,[6] complement,[7] and proline-rich polypeptides (PRP).[8] A number of cytokines (small messenger peptides that control the functioning of the immune system) are found in colostrum as well,[9] including interleukins,[9] tumor necrosis factor,[10] chemokines,[11] and others. Colostrum also contains a number of growth factors, such as insulin-like growth factors I,[12] and II,[13] transforming growth factors alpha,[14] beta 1 and beta 2,[15][16] fibroblast growth factors,[17] epidermal growth factor,[18] granulocyte-macrophage-stimulating growth factor,[19] platelet-derived growth factor,[19] vascular endothelial growth factor,[20] and colony-stimulating factor-1.[21]
    Colostrum is very rich in proteins, vitamin A, and sodium chloride, but contains lower amounts of carbohydrates, lipids, and potassium than normal milk. The most pertinent bioactive components in colostrum are growth factors and antimicrobial factors. The antibodies in colostrum provide passive immunity, while growth factors stimulate the development of the gut. They are passed to the neonate and provide the first protection against pathogens.
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  9. #19
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I KNEW there was something fishy about the way this was being interpreted, so I did some poking around. The perception that all formula will be stockpiled in hospitals to be signed out like medicine is not accurate at all. Number one, Latch On is a VOLUNTARY program. The very first post in this thread says so. If a hospital participates in Latch On, then the formula IN the hospital will be dispensed as needed, rather than being given to all new mothers, even the ones who express a desire to breastfeed (which, currently, 90% of them do). Baby formula will still be available at retail locations as it always has been. The only change is that formula companies will not be able to give away formula in gift bags to new mothers in hospitals, which I totally support.
    Oops! Thanks for poking around, Ivy. I jumped the gun and posted before doing research. That's what I get for taking the news at face value.
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  10. #20
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    It is absolutely not your fault. The reporting on this story was completely asinine.

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