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  1. #51
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I will no longer eat at Chick-Fil-A, because I hate it when my fast food tastes like politics. Blech. (and the closest one is 90 miles away, heh)

  2. #52
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There are many conservative Christians who would disagree with that decision, when they view it as contributing their money to immoral practices. Lord knows I heard my share of why people couldn't buy this or that product because of the owning company's "immoral connections/policies" when I was inhabiting a pew regularly.
    Yes, those Christians exist and in Paul's view they are the immature weaker brethren.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #53
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Exactly. I'd rather Chik-Fil-A not be blocked from opening stores where they see fit (as long as they are law abiding), and let free speech and individual choice play out.
    Precisely. I'd have thought this should be beyond question. Makes me wonder why the need to block it, e.g., is there a fear of some residents exercising their speech by eating there, despite the anti Chick Fil A campaign?
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
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  4. #54
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    Precisely. I'd have thought this should be beyond question. Makes me wonder why the need to block it, e.g., is there a fear of some residents exercising their speech by eating there, despite the anti Chick Fil A campaign?
    Well, fear is always a part of these kinds of dynamics, IMO. Basically, the whole situation has become very polarized because of some outspoken behavior, which wasn't helped by the general tension in the national discussion over same-sex marriage which has risen even potentially to the level of SCOTUS and bumping up against conservative notions of family and a way of life that feels beset by new influences in this country.

    I don't think we've seen Target get TOO much bad press in comparison, because they've stayed pretty low-key about their values and just focus publicly on their business.

    In this situation, it's basically that one side or the other has dug in and made a stink about things (even making moral judgments of the other side), in effect calling out them out, and so now they feel they need to say something and posture as well, or they'll lose face / give up leverage. Typical pissing match.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #55
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, fear is always a part of these kinds of dynamics, IMO. Basically, the whole situation has become very polarized because of some outspoken behavior, which wasn't helped by the general tension in the national discussion over same-sex marriage which has risen even potentially to the level of SCOTUS and bumping up against conservative notions of family and a way of life that feels beset by new influences in this country.

    I don't think we've seen Target get TOO much bad press in comparison, because they've stayed pretty low-key about their values and just focus publicly on their business.

    In this situation, it's basically that one side or the other has dug in and made a stink about things, in effect calling out the other side, and so now they feel they need to say something and posture as well, or they'll lose face / give up leverage. Typical pissing match.
    It's fine - even encouraged - to have a pissing match, but it is irresponsible and scary to improperly threaten to bring the weight of the state down on the "opponent" in this case in order to muzzle his speech. That's next level. If the permit cannot be blocked based on the views of the owner, then it was unacceptable to issue the threat. And people of all persuasions should be vigilant about such overreaching, else we all live in petty fiefdoms.
    hoarding time and space
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    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #56
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    It's fine - even encouraged - to have a pissing match, but it is irresponsible and scary to improperly threaten to bring the weight of the state down on the "opponent" in this case in order to muzzle his speech. That's next level. If the permit cannot be blocked based on the views of the owner, then it was unacceptable to issue the threat. And people of all persuasions should be vigilant about such overreaching, else we all live in petty fiefdoms.
    Chick-Fil-A is not a person (at least not biologically speaking), therefore I have no problem with "the state" trying to muzzle its "speech". If people were trying to use the government to silence Truett Cathy, I would feel differently.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #57
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Chick-Fil-A is not a person (at least not biologically speaking), therefore I have no problem with "the state" trying to muzzle its "speech". If people were trying to silence Truett Cathy, then I would feel differently.
    The "opponent" being muzzled here is Truett Cathy.
    Chik Fil A not being a biological person doesn't really matter. It's established that it's a legal person.
    Further, the "state" can muzzle within reason. It's the spectre of unauthorized muzzling based on the whim of the person acting for the state that's the problem.
    hoarding time and space
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    The "opponent" being muzzled here is Truett Cathy.
    Chik Fil A not being a biological person doesn't really matter. It's established that it's a legal person.
    Further, the "state" can muzzle within reason. It's the spectre of unauthorized muzzling based on the whim of the person acting for the state that's the problem.
    Have there been threats of imprisonment directed at Cathy? I haven't heard of any.

    I am well aware of the fact that corporations are people, legally. Are you suggesting that I'm supposed to like it? Or not complain about it? Should I just accept it and pretend that it can't possibly ever be changed?

    Of all the things to complain about, you're complaining that a multi-billion dollar corporation is getting bullied by a city alderman? If any entity needs protection from government, it's not a multi-billion dollar corporation. It can hire the best legal representation money can buy, and it can also contribute to the political campaigns of sympathetic candidates. I'll save my concern for real people of lesser means.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #59
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Have there been threats of imprisonment directed at Cathy? I haven't heard of any.
    A threat of imprisonment is not necessary to muzzle anyone.
    Nonetheless, some of us see a problem with a person abusing state power - for better or worse.
    hoarding time and space
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  10. #60
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    A threat of imprisonment is not necessary to muzzle anyone.
    Nonetheless, some of us see a problem with a person abusing state power - for better or worse.
    There are varying degrees of abuse, and this one scores really, really low on my care-o-meter. I think the multi-billion dollar corporation just might be able to pull through this.

    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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