User Tag List

First 2345614 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 207

  1. #31
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post

    For instance the idea that love cannot be self-sacrificial because the object of love gives pleasure to the individual, therefore whatever you do to protect/support your loved one is really protecting the way they make you feel and your own happiness. It seems really unrealistic though from the perspective f wanting to maintain long term relationships because those take compromise, both partners can't follow their own self interest all of the time. Also, that love is only the recognition of your own qualities and values in another person seems like it has undertones of narcissism.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post

    Another thing too I don't understand is objectivism stance on the use of force. From my understanding she thought use of force on others was wrong because it robbed them of their capability to use reason. However if the most important thing is my own self-interest and happiness why should I care about anyone else's ability to reason or their rights.


    I honestly want some perspective, not looking for a fight.
    It had to do with barring the initiation of force of one person against another; e.g., mugging someone. Her reason for this view had to do with interfering with another person's perception and judgment. E.g., my judgment [edit: read "feelings" not "judgment"] says that you should hand me your wallet no matter what you happen to think of the situation.

    It's not about one person's reasoning being opposed selfishly against another's variation on reason. It's about acting on principles that all rational beings can and should agree on universally, in this case, barring the initiation of force against another person. Most of philosophy is concerned with this very point of deriving universality.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #33
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well if that's the way you're choosing to rationalise it these days then fine. Do you think your experience is unique and what might that say? There is a difference between personal observations or feedback and threatening behaviour, I hope you learn that because its just beneficial to know and understand that.

    Anyway, I think you'll find that I've not been seeking to respond to any of your posts or threads really since the last episode and outburst, yet you keep trying to open discussions with me, its almost like your unconsciously wanting feedback as much you're resistant to the whole idea.
    Give it a rest.

    Aren't there happy gay couples out there that you should be doing something about?

  4. #34
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Are you serious? Which do you think are good writers?

    I read The Second Sex first and then worked through all of de Bouvoir's books, hoping to find something special, the novels, the blood of others, everything but I found nothing.

    Ardent was much the same, I had higher hopes of Eichmann in Jerusalem than what it turned out to be like.
    Okay, I will admit that de Beauvoir's novels (at least the one's I've read...) were not that great. But I still think The Second Sex is an influential and important text, and The Ethics of Ambiguity was more informative than anything I ever read by Sartre.

    As for Arendt, why were you disappointed with Eichmann?

    I'm a fan of her ideas about how capitalist invasion and primacy of economics - classically a private sphere concern - into the public realm fucks with our ability to have a meaningful political sphere and even successful revolutions. Among others.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #35
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Haven't we had this thread before?

    Saying I'm not a Rand fan is putting it mildly, but this is one shitshow I think I've been involved in one too many times.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Haven't we had this thread before?

    Saying I'm not a Rand fan is putting it mildly, but this is one shitshow I think I've been involved in one too many times.
    How were you involved?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Another thing too I don't understand is objectivism stance on the use of force. From my understanding she thought use of force on others was wrong because it robbed them of their capability to use reason. However if the most important thing is my own self-interest and happiness why should I care about anyone else's ability to reason or their rights.
    This is the balance that many people overlook in Rand's ideas. She lauds selfishness in the individual, but in every individual, and decries the use of force to override individual will. My right to be selfish thus ends when it attempts to compel you to action, as does yours. If only everyone would act in their true self-interest, the world would be a better place. Unfortunately, many (most?) people have difficulty determining exactly what that is.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is the balance that many people overlook in Rand's ideas. She lauds selfishness in the individual, but in every individual, and decries the use of force to override individual will. My right to be selfish thus ends when it attempts to compel you to action, as does yours. If only everyone would act in their true self-interest, the world would be a better place. Unfortunately, many (most?) people have difficulty determining exactly what that is.

    I guess I don't understand why it is assumed that my best interests coincide with the best interests of others. It just seems arbitrary to say my right to selfishness ends when I try to compel other people If it's already been established that the interests of other people are not my concern. If I'm competing with someone for a position why is it not my true self-interest to disqualify them whether it be by deceit, maiming or murder.

  9. #39
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I guess I don't understand why it is assumed that my best interests coincide with the best interests of others. It just seems arbitrary to say my right to selfishness ends when I try to compel other people If it's already been established that the interests of other people are not my concern. If I'm competing with someone for a position why is it not my true self-interest to disqualify them whether it be by deceit, maiming or murder.
    Your best interests don't necessarily coincide with those of others. Yes, you could argue that you should be able to get what you want by any means, even violence or deceit, but this is not Rand's philosophy, it is something else. I am simply explaining how Rand's own ideas contain the mechanism to temper the potential destructiveness of self-interest.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #40
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Your best interests don't necessarily coincide with those of others. Yes, you could argue that you should be able to get what you want by any means, even violence or deceit, but this is not Rand's philosophy, it is something else. I am simply explaining how Rand's own ideas contain the mechanism to temper the potential destructiveness of self-interest.


    I guess what I'm saying is I don't see what that mechanism is besides her saying "it stops here". There doesn't seem to be a logical reason for it, it's just a rule she's made up to avoid dealing with the implications of what she's promoting.

Similar Threads

  1. Ayn Rand is undoubtedly an ENTJ not an INTJ
    By Harlow_Jem in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-10-2017, 12:55 AM
  2. Ayn Rand: The Ultimate INTJ
    By Into It in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-20-2011, 09:44 PM
  3. AYN RAND'S VAGINA SMOKING A BONG
    By Ginkgo in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-25-2010, 02:01 AM
  4. Ayn Rand fandom and type
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 11-10-2008, 01:45 AM
  5. [INTJ] The Fountainhead/Atlas Shrugged/Ayn Rand's Objectivism and INTJ's
    By Harlow_Jem in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 01:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO