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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I.E. - fighting the man, or fighting against the consolidation of global wealth. While both are noble aims I wouldn't be so quick to cry wolf.

    There are a ton of Russian Oligarchs still in Russia who took over state run industries while filling the power vacuum after the Berlin wall fell.
    Definitely, it was one example that occurred after the fall. Things could potentially have changed from then till now especially with all the conflicts happening.

    The fact of the matter is, the current Russian Government needs money like the rest of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Your enthusiasm for the topic has outweighed your understanding of it from the get go.
    The Russian side of it, yes. Doesn't escape the fact that we have a problem with loads of money offshore. Which, neither tax hike or tax cuts will seem to be able to bring back.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    That's funny, because, the more I learn about the world and what is occurring, the more I feel like I am being pulled more and more in a certain direction like it can no longer be ignored.

    Maybe it's because you've become convinced there's only one answer, when there are actually multiple answers which can and should be contextual, in my opinion.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    hmm, actually no...I've met more Russians for some reason than the average American, I walk outside and they fall out of the sky and teach me math or offer me jobs or become my therapist, and my math professor in particular described to me what it was like when the Soviet Union broke down (it was hell and chaos, which is why so many Russians love Putin for saving the country financially) and how he worked three jobs and was so happy to be able to earn money, and told me funny stories about Russian mobsters...and I've come to to the belief that sincerely some people were just doing what they could to get away, and they had no obligation at that point to stay there in the middle of that.

    On the other hand, I know there are "bad" people who take advantage of whomever they can and make off like bandits, but I think because of the specific nature of perestroika that some ordinary people probably would get hurt too if our government had actually cooperated with Russia to ship those people back to Russian prisons.

    But I agree that people do whatever they can to protect their money, some do, it's like all the Swiss bank accounts in the 80's or whatever, and I don't think a global government is the answer.

    In fact, I think Putin himself has secret off-shore accounts from what I've heard, but the man economically saved Russia, even still.
    Yes, I know people who have ran from Russia to escape the conditions there during the fallout. I know one of them from college - she can't be any more happier living here instead of over there

    But there are also prominent people, who are still residing part time in the pacific ocean, that took advantage of the chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I don't like globalist thinking, I don't think it's really good in extremes, and we have organizations like the UN to deal with this sort of thing. If people from the U.S. have done this, well it's also partly the U.S.'s fault for having insane tax laws in the first place, let's create more reasonable national laws before we even think about global.

    Nations taking care of themselves can prevent a lot of this, and in the case that they can't, I'm not sure it's the answer to take over. For example the way the Mexican government acts is appalling, but what are we supposed to do, invade and conquer Mexico?
    The U.N. is more like a figurehead that consist of the U.S., Russia, China, France, and the U.K. If any one of these nations veto a proclamation, it is the end of that proclamation. Considering we have 5 nations with an unlimited veto power, it doesn't do any other nation any good.

    It is good on paper, but there isn't a big force that come along with it unless you are one of those 5 nations. Just like the recent declaration of internet freedom from the UN, we already can see how our own nation is going about it (or at least, I am.)

    Proclaim X, do Y.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Maybe it's because you've become convinced there's only one answer, when there are actually multiple answers which can and should be contextual, in my opinion.
    It is more like, we have a a solution that follows a problem. That solution has its own set of problems.

    We can run around in circles with solution-problem-solution.

  5. #35
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    I'm increasingly beginning to believe that we should make legislating as unpleasant a process as possible.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Yes, I know people who have ran from Russia to escape the conditions there during the fallout. I know one of them from college - she can't be any more happier living here instead of over there

    But there are also prominent people, who are still residing part time in the pacific ocean, that took advantage of the chaos.
    Of course there are. There are also CEOs in the U.S. are making more money after the stock market crash than they were before the recession, even as the poverty and unemployment rates have risen.

    Global government isn't going to stop it, and apparently the U.S. has no business talking shit to anybody or making the rules when they allow this to occur in their own country.

    Also note: perestroika was 20 years ago and Russia is better than it used to be; my ENTJ friend stayed here in the U.S. for a few months and WANTED to go back to Russia

    The U.N. is more like a figurehead that consist of the U.S., Russia, China, France, and the U.K. If any one of these nations veto a proclamation, it is the end of that proclamation. Considering we have 5 nations with an unlimited veto power, it doesn't do any other nation any good.

    It is good on paper, but there isn't a big force that come along with it unless you are one of those 5 nations. Just like the recent declaration of internet freedom from the UN, we already can see how our own nation is going about it (or at least, I am.)

    Proclaim X, do Y.
    Anyway I disagree with you about global government, and if "big" nations can't even solve their own problems, they clearly can't solve the world's.

    From what I've observed, smaller European nations and Japan are doing quite well, and they are kind of small countries. Maybe this is the idea some people have behind libertarianism - when they aren't crazed anarcho-capitalists - is that smaller governments/nations can actually maintain a more peaceful and productive level of control.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Anyway I disagree with you about global government, and if "big" nations can't even solve their own problems, they clearly can't solve the world's.

    From what I've observed, smaller European nations and Japan are doing quite well, and they are kind of small countries. Maybe this is the idea some people have behind libertarianism - when they aren't crazed anarcho-capitalists - is that smaller governments/nations can actually maintain a more peaceful and productive level of control.
    Not exactly. They have a problem of their own.

    The only ones I can think of that are doing fairly well is the Nordic Countries, but that is because they are considered socialist entities.

    Japan has many problems of their own like a heightening median age.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Not exactly. They have a problem of their own.

    The only ones I can think of that are doing fairly well is the Nordic Countries, but that is because they are considered socialist entities.

    Japan has many problems of their own like a heightening median age.
    Nordic countries are doing fairly well? They're doing great.

    Mass socialism on a grand scale isn't the solution to anything, history should show you that, the EU isn't even really working, it's caused a spike in nationalism.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I'm increasingly beginning to believe that we should make legislating as unpleasant a process as possible.
    We should, or rather, that is what the American people SHOULD do. Make Congress, your Representative, and your Senators a living hell.

    It is why people like Grover Norquist get what they want by making every Republican that decides to concede even an inch a living hell.

    Find out how they vote, what pays them (if any) to vote. If they aren't in line, tell your representative and Senators that you don't like it (nicely) and if they are going to vote for something you don't like, tell them you'll start a grassroots movement to turn the district you live in around or to a different candidate. Often than not, they fear vigilant voters than they do non-vigilant voters (unless your district heavily swings a certain way.)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Nordic countries are doing fairly well? They're doing great.

    Mass socialism on a grand scale isn't the solution to anything, history should show you that, the EU isn't even really working, it's caused a spike in nationalism.
    It is more like the Nordic Countries priorities are more in line with Education, Healthcare, and less Prisons. They know it is a good idea to fund those areas for a healthy nation for today and for the future generations.

    On the other hand, we have a rising student debt with mediocre education (which we are obviously doing something wrong somewhere,) nonexistent healthcare for those that need it (until... THAT bill...,) and a country sprawling with public and private prisons and giant military spending.

    We can do better than what other countries have. We just apparently choose not to.

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