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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    More similar to Canada, which still has high gun ownership in world numbers, particular in terms of hunting rifles but where concealed handgun permits are almost never permitted, and common citizens don't have access to automatic weapons.

    Only 30% of murders are committed with firearms in Canada, versus 70% in the U.S.

    While our murder numbers have shrank, their total numbers of murders (even without guns) each year in percentage is still less than half of ours.
    Thank you for you well thought out, non reactionary resnse.

    I must admit that I don't understand why people need to have automatic weapons apart from that they are fun to shoot and allowed by a wide interpretation of the constitution. Certainly there could be a way we could allow ownership of these guns but prevent constant access to them. Like you must store it at a gun range and can only shoot under controlled circumstances or something.
    Last edited by Siren; 07-20-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Stupid iPad

  2. #142
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The "guns don't kill people, people kill people" schtick is simplistic, and frankly, pretty retarded. It's simply easier for people to kill with guns. You could have murderous tendencies, but be kind of an anxious cowardly asshat.

    It's much harder to walk up and stab a two year old than to do a drive-by shooting.
    Clearly you haven't stabbed a lot of 2 year olds.
    Whoops.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siren View Post
    Thank you for you well thought out, non rsactionary resnse.

    I must admit that I don't understand why people need to have automatic weapons apart from that they are fun to shoot and allowed by a wide interpretation of the constitution. Certainly there could be a way we could allow ownership of these guns but prevent constant access to them. Like you must store it at a gun range and can only shoot under controlled circumstances or something.
    When the constitution was written, we didn't have automatic weapons and the H-bomb. I don't think anybody outside of the military needs legal access to machine guns or hand grenades.

    I hate when people say our right to bear arms somehow includes outrageous violence, and not simply the right to hunt and protect one's home, which is reasonable gun ownership.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    That is the extent of my claim.
    I have typed about 10 responses to this, all of which sounds mean so I'm just going to say that milquetoast response does not add to the debate.

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  6. #146
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    This is true. However, is gun laws were tightened, then the availability of even illegal guns would go down, as I imagine most illegal guns originated from legal sources.
    I don't know how tighter gun laws would affect general crime rates, particularly in poorer sections of urban areas, but I do think for situations like this, Virginia Tech, and Columbine, making it harder to get guns legally would be kind of effective. Most the people that commit these crimes are troubled loners with zero clue how to get their hands on illegal firearms and probably without the street smarts to figure it out without being caught or hitting a roadblock. Additionally, any competent black market wouldn't sell to just anyone, and certainly would have an interest in not having his guns mixed up in a national story like this: that'd mean a lot of police would spend a lot more time looking for him, and cracking down on the business in general.

    This is not to say, for example, there would or wouldn't be an increase in smaller scale crimes or gang violence. I don't know with any certainty what the net result would be in those cases. But legal roadblocks to finding weapons easily would likely be, at least, effective on a cruel, brooding kid who wants to make a name for himself by killing a room full of people. Of course, that theory could have some flaw I haven't considered.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I'm not a history expert, so I'm not making a big case here, but it seems to me that humans are losing their shit in a more psychological fashion as society has evolved. I think the way we have evolved has been increasingly difficult to cope with, as we separate ourselves from nature and from being animal. That's just the sense that I get from observing people.
    I don't know what's wrong with Americans, but I've actually met people from the former Soviet Union who are less paranoid of our government.

    There's no basis for it, it's patently absurd, people in this country are so free...and yet they are more convinced that the government is going to get them than people who actually grew up under Soviet rule?

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The "guns don't kill people, people kill people" schtick is simplistic, and frankly, pretty retarded. It's simply easier for people to kill with guns. You could have murderous tendencies, but be kind of an anxious cowardly asshat.

    It's much harder to walk up and stab a two year old than to do a drive-by shooting.
    Bombers are far more cowardly than gunmen. And yes, if I ever wanted to kill a 2 year old (seriously???) then it would be easier for me to stab one than shoot one. I have been using knives since I was 10 but I can't shoot.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siren View Post
    Bombers are far more cowardly than gunmen. And yes, if I ever wanted to kill a 2 year old (seriously???) then it would be easier for me to stab one than shoot one. I have been using knives since I was 10 but I can't shoot.
    Nope, many gang members and "nerdy" types who freak out because of peer pressure, stress, or that sort of thing aren't real sociopaths and they most likely wouldn't walk up and stab a two year old.

    Psychologically it's more difficult to shoot a man in the face than in the back. It's a similar principle.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Nope, many gang members and "nerdy" types who freak out because of peer pressure, stress, or that sort of thing aren't real sociopaths and they most likely wouldn't walk up and stab a two year old.

    Psychologically it's more difficult to shoot a man in the face than in the back. It's a similar principle.
    Is it harder to stab him in the back or shoot him in the back?

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