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  1. #31
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    What does this teach us?

    Demand they identify themselves and declare that if they don't you'll shoot in five seconds. No response? Empty the entire clip through your door and then claim the "stand your ground defense".
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  2. #32
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    The deputies didn't announce themselves as police officers so I'd like to know if they were dressed as cops. If not, then I don't see fault with the victim. Everyone has their own boundaries, their own needs for safety and unless it comes out that he owed that weapon illegally, he's within his rights to defend himself and if three strange men NOT dressed like cops and who have NOT identified themselves as police officers come to my door in the middle of the night, you better bet your ass I'm answering the door with a weapon of my own and calling the police.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  3. #33
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    The deputies didn't announce themselves as police officers so I'd like to know if they were dressed as cops. If not, then I don't see fault with the victim. Everyone has their own boundaries, their own needs for safety and unless it comes out that he owed that weapon illegally, he's within his rights to defend himself and if three strange men NOT dressed like cops and who have NOT identified themselves as police officers come to my door in the middle of the night, you better bet your ass I'm answering the door with a weapon of my own and calling the police.
    Why answer the door? I mean yeah, if for some reason you HAVE to answer it I can see having a weapon at the ready if an attacker is likely. But why answer it if you don't have to?

    Not opening the door is to your advantage, especially if you have the weapon because if someone is entering and they get the door open, you know their location before they know yours. If you open the door they have your location and they could have moved to anywhere in the meantime.

  4. #34
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Legally the guy never had to answer the door at all.
    what a mess.
    sigh.

    My grandfather's a retired police officer, & answers his door even in broad daylight with a hand on his gun. May seem hypervigilant, but considering the messed up things that can and do take place here, it's not that unreasonable.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
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  5. #35
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Legally the guy never had to answer the door at all.
    what a mess.
    sigh.

    My grandfather's a retired police officer, & answers his door even in broad daylight with a hand on his gun. May seem hypervigilant, but considering the messed up things that can and do take place here, it's not that unreasonable.
    Hand on gun = ok. Gun drawn = asking for trouble.

    I mean, think about it - the only reason to answer the door is that it might be someone who has business being there. If you point your gun at them, at the very least you look like a psycho. The only reason to point your gun is if you believe what's on the other side is dangerous, in which case the wise decision is to not open the door.

    I lived in a bad neighborhood and nobody answered the door with guns. If they weren't expecting you or didn't have a way of seeing you, they didn't answer it period. Waving a gun at someone is a good way to piss them off and make them remember you and possibly come back and burn your whole house down with you in it.

  6. #36
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Edit: or put it this way. If you think you need to protect yourself from a possible attacker, should letting them in be your first action? I think not. Opening the door is removing the one obstacle that might block them from you.
    Yeah, but Edward Norton did it successfully in American History X!
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  7. #37
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Why answer the door? I mean yeah, if for some reason you HAVE to answer it I can see having a weapon at the ready if an attacker is likely. But why answer it if you don't have to?

    Not opening the door is to your advantage, especially if you have the weapon because if someone is entering and they get the door open, you know their location before they know yours. If you open the door they have your location and they could have moved to anywhere in the meantime.
    I didn't say it was the smart idea, only that he was well within his rights to do that.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  8. #38
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Yeah, but Edward Norton did it successfully in American History X!
    Haven't seen that but I'm betting it isn't realistic LOL

    Here's how opening a door with a gun plays out:
    1. The person on the other side sees the gun and backs off or runs away. Now you can't do anything and your element of surprise is wasted. You can't shoot them, and police will do nothing at this point. Even if they had ill intent, they can cover it by saying they were looking for someone and had the wrong house. There's a good chance they will remember you and now they know you have a gun. They might be back.

    2. You end up pointing a gun at an innocent and harmless person.

    3. They have guns and blow you away.

  9. #39
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I didn't say it was the smart idea, only that he was well within his rights to do that.
    Yeah. One also has the right to plant giant spikes all over their house I guess but I don't see the point in defending their right when they trip and impale themselves on one of them.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    It's not a new thing for people to make up a bunch of reasons why the victim should have avoided falling victim. I just think it's a little wrong to hone in on how he could have acted differently and how stupid he was about his actions. We don't know his reasons. He is dead. The police operate in a gun-toting state. That's just the reality. I'm surprised the police didn't conduct themselves accordingly.

    In regards to the Stand Your Ground law, I had read an article about a man in Florida killing two unarmed (hispanic) trespassers with a shotgun, even while on the phone with police and they were instructing him not to act. (Similar to Trayvon case) He was not held accountable due to the Stand Your Ground law. If that does not technically meet the guidelines of the law, then I would say there is a fair amount of abuse of that law, stretching it to meet broader situation. It would be an interesting topic to do more research on.

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