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  1. #11
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    No? You wouldn't lower your gun after answering the door to police in uniform?
    You do not know how quickly this happened. The man could have been paranoid of crime. It was late, he went to the door and pointed his gun out. Before even processing, he could have been killed by the officers. The man could have been half asleep and scared. Who really knows. The officers should have knocked and announced that they were the police to avoid confusion. If they thought the man might make a run for it, they could have simply covered back exits.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    No? You wouldn't lower your gun after answering the door to police in uniform?
    I seriously doubt he had time to lower the gun. The wording of the article suggests that the officers had weapons drawn. Specifically, "When we knocked on the door, the door opened and the occupant of that apartment was pointing a gun at deputies, and that's when we opened fire and killed him" suggests this.

  3. #13
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    srsly. Police and guy seem to both be partially at fault (pointing a gun at people for knocking, sight unseen?! police not identifying themselves?!), although it seems likely that the gun culture drove both mistakes.

    /out before "how dare you criticize amurrika??!!!!1111"
    +1. Absofuckinglutely. I'm reminded of that "10 things" article thread.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    You do not know how quickly this happened. The man could have been paranoid of crime. It was late, he went to the door and pointed his gun out. Before even processing, he could have been killed by the officers. The man could have been half asleep and scared. Who really knows. The officers should have knocked and announced that they were the police to avoid confusion. If they thought the man might make a run for it, they could have simply covered back exits.
    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    I seriously doubt he had time to lower the gun. The wording of the article suggests that the officers had weapons drawn. Specifically, "When we knocked on the door, the door opened and the occupant of that apartment was pointing a gun at deputies, and that's when we opened fire and killed him" suggests this.
    This reinforces my point as I said in the OP. Important details are absent.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #15
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    srsly. Police and guy seem to both be partially at fault (pointing a gun at people for knocking, sight unseen?! police not identifying themselves?!), although it seems likely that the gun culture drove both mistakes.

    /out before "how dare you criticize amurrika??!!!!1111"
    Yes, that is true. However, legally the man was not at fault because we do have a right to bare arms. Where I can see the point you are making about gun culture (it's obviously a problem down there in Florida) I do hesitate to say that the innocent man was at fault. Every action he took was his legal right, regardless of should or shouldn't. His actions would not have been a problem had the police done their job correctly. Police should be held responsible.

  6. #16
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    A lot of cops think they are above the law, regardless if uniform or not. They push peoples buttons and do things that would be extremely inappropriate for average citizens to do and when the victim responds to that open a can of whoopass on the person.

    In general 1) don't open the door to someone banging on your door in the wee hours of the early morning unless you know who they are [edit unless they identify themselves as cops and have a warrant]2) don't pull a gun on someone unless you are going to immediately shoot them (and justified in doing so).
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Yes, that is true. However, legally the man was not at fault because we do have a right to bare arms. Where I can see the point you are making about gun culture (it's obviously a problem down there in Florida) I do hesitate to say that the innocent man was at fault. Every action he took was his legal right, regardless of should or shouldn't. His actions would not have been a problem had the police done their job correctly. Police should be held responsible.
    Rights aren't the issue. It's that he excercised them in the most flawed manner possible. People can have rights, but they still need to be smart. The same could be said of some car accidents, where the two parties both did things right by the letter of the law (like neither one was speeding or running a light), yet they weren't in sync with each other's behavior. One could have been going a little too fast compared to the other (yet still under the speed limit) and hit the other.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    Oh, hey, central Florida is in the news. Again.

    Honestly, this is incredibly tragic. It's what they're trained to do, and who knows what really went on. It's hard to say, but they went with their gut reaction as trained officers, and the homeowner as a paranoid guy at 1:30 am.

    "He was the wrong guy and he got shot and killed anyway. There's fault on both sides. I think more so on the county," Ryan Perry said. "I can understand why he [the deputy] did it, but it should have never gone down like that," Perry said.

    Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/central-flo...#ixzz20uVwHTmZ
    ^Pretty much. And I agree with KDude.

    I think that identifying themselves as officers would have changed things. But they couldn't have anticipated killing an innocent man. Either way, now two people are dead because of this fiasco, so hopefully they find the killer soon.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ism View Post
    Oh, hey, central Florida is in the news. Again.
    Indeed. But Texas is worse imo. I never see Florida or Texas in a headline and it's good news.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  10. #20
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Yes, that is true. However, legally the man was not at fault because we do have a right to bare arms. Where I can see the point you are making about gun culture (it's obviously a problem down there in Florida) I do hesitate to say that the innocent man was at fault. Every action he took was his legal right, regardless of should or shouldn't. His actions would not have been a problem had the police done their job correctly. Police should be held responsible.
    Well, police are trained to shoot when they think they're in danger - I wasn't suggesting the guy did anything illegal (afaik), but that doesn't mean it was a good idea to point the gun at the strangers. Laws don't have to be broken to consider something a mistake, and the police aren't necessarily at fault even if the man did nothing wrong. Sometimes situations just line up in an unlucky way; sometimes this indicates a problem with the system (police training, in this case), sometimes not.

    I don't know enough about Florida law to know whether they're legally at fault, but it's clear that if either the man or the police had behaved differently this situation would probably have ended more peacefully.
    -end of thread-

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