See, that response right there, is what I don't get. When they criticize the US, whether justified or not, it's not your personal integrity on the line, is it? I'll be honest, I love that you guys can actually accomplish something as a nation and stand together, but more often than not, it's also frightening as hell, as it can create a heated response at a moments notice which is hard to undo, I feel. Europe has its own issues with never getting anything done and being bogged down in bureaucracy, but I also have no problem admitting that, nor do I consider it unpatriotic and akin to being a traitor to say such a thing. It's almost..treason to say something bad about America as a country, or so it seems, and even more so if it is an american saying this. The accusation 'you're unpatriotic' would never be an accusation, just an observation where I come from..and it wouldn't be considered offensive at all
Maybe I just don't get it coz I didn't grow up in your country. But it also makes me uneasy and scared of actually asking questions about it..as I just did.
Living in a country where people don't have flags hanging around and don't openly show their feelings for their country (if they exist) unless there is a soccer game on I am flabbergasted at how defensive of their country and passionately patriotic many Americans are. You have to be very careful when you criticize any aspect of their country. I have recently been compared to Goebbels for daring to do that - by somebody I considered a calm, rational and educated person and a friend!
Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit
Maybe the patriotism in Germany is expressed primarily through chauvinism and sporting events.
But in the US, patriotism means just a little bit more.
Originally Posted by Randomnity
she was explicitly talking about Germany, not the US.
Most of the time I just encounter blind patriotism, people here don't know wtf they're even attempting to celebrate. It's just another way to feel unified/have a stronger sense of identity. I live here, there are plenty of places that might be less pleasant - so I can't complain- my basic needs are met, but I certainly can't relate to the glazed over AMERICA--- FUCK YEA attitude I see all too often. I can't respect blind fanaticism like that. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but, it's incredibly common.
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There is a difference between criticizing the US and trying to stuff Patriotism into a box labeled sports and chauvinism.
It wasn't the critique of America that bothered me, it was the lack of understanding of patriotism.
If you haven't noticed I criticize the US about plenty of things.
Alright, fair enough. Those are just the more ugly sides of patriotism
And yes, you do criticize America plenty..but from what I've seen, it's mean to unify under patriotism to make the US even better. And yes, there's nothing wrong with it..it's just a very foreign concept to me
Living in a country where people don't have flags hanging around and don't openly show their feelings for their country (if they exist) unless there is a soccer game on I am flabbergasted at how defensive of their country and passionately patriotic many Americans are. You have to be very careful when you criticize any aspect of their country.
This. I think it might be a compounded byproduct of the list in the article and beyond.
To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
~ Elbert Hubbard Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.