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  1. #151
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It's the same in other countries, except there's a much deeper and longer history of ethnic chauvinism in European countries, which touches back on my ...er...unfortunate discussion...earlier in the thread, about American liberals seeing multi-cult as the holy grail, because it's really all that separates American nationalism from European nationalism, and the irrationality and denial of it is absurd.

    And maybe the reason why Americans are so loud about their patriotism is because of the lack of historic ethnic cohesion that I believe @Red Herring referred to as "subconscious chauvinism" so it becomes something that people are more externally focused upon.

    Therefore perhaps the only way to get all of these so called "extremist" Americans to shut up and agree ...would be a more ethnic or culturally based nationalism, lol.

    It's all so ironic, and I'm sincerely beginning to believe it's simply human nature.
    Ah, yes, that effect. I'd forgotten about it, but I think so. It's another fundamental difference that explains American political and cultural development. The less-race-based patriotism.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Ah, yes, that effect. I'd forgotten about it, but I think so. It's another fundamental difference that explains American political and cultural development. The less-race-based patriotism.
    Not even just race, but a cohesive culture of a similar religion, of a similar style of dress, etc. And this is what far right Conservative Christians seem to want to push for: a protestant Christian nation with cohesive similar social values, while the extreme left believes somehow irrationally that pushing multi-culturalism or enforced "mixing" on people to an extreme (i.e. some day we'll all be happy atheist tan people!) is ...pretty much the same shit, different tee shirt.

    People want cohesive sameness, a sense of unity, it's something palpable in humans.

  3. #153
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    while the extreme left believes somehow irrationally that pushing multi-culturalism or enforced "mixing" on people to an extreme (i.e. some day we'll all be happy atheist tan people!) is ...pretty much the same shit, different tee shirt.
    I would think that "multi-culturalism" is more about economic and political equalization of historically oppressed minority groups than about achieving some one "tan" race of people. The focus upon recognizing and appreciating difference in "lefty" discourse is huge precisely because they want to resist the pattern of erasing or suppressing difference under some unifying banner.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #154
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You should visit and express this opinion to the faces of some of the citizens of my great state.
    As a fellow resident of our great state (and one who lives about half an hour from you!) I hear all sorts of critisim of Florida and could give a shit less about it. Its got its flaw, like America, but its my home and I love it all the same

    Anywho, my thoughts on the list..

    Few People Are Impressed By Us - I'm not surprised, nor would I expect them to be. I expect members of other countries to be as patriotic of of their respect nations as I am of mine and to think about other countries as much as I do (which is to say, not at all)

    Few People Hate Us -Good to know, the Bush years I'm sure didn't do much for our public image but such is life.

    We Know Nothing About The Rest Of The World - This I'm sure is true, and I think we, as a people, would benefit from learning more about more neighbors on this blue and green ball we live on

    We Are Poor At Expressing Gratitude And Affection - I guess, I don't really know. Only other places I've been outside of my home is Jamaica, the Bahamas, and Mexico and they all seemed pretty similar. Then again, I was in the port cities so I suppose that shouldn't be surprising. Bottom line, I'm always down with a group of business not being quiet so stuffy

    The Quality of Life For The Average American Is Not That Great - Perhaps. I've heard how things are in other places and wouldn't mind if we cleaned up our own house some.

    The Rest Of The World Is Not A Slum-Ridden Shithole Compared To Us - I never thought as much, and in fact this seems like an unfair stereotype. A lot of the people, particularly the wealthy conservative ones, love to tell me how much they've traveled and how beautiful/majestic/insert whatever positive adjective you want about other places.

    That being said, there are certainly MUCH worse places to be in.

    We’re Paranoid - I personally think this is overblown. Certainly we've become a lot more security conscious since 9/11 but I think if you were to compare the average American citizen versus what those morons on Fox News keep chickhawking, I think you'd be amazed that a lot Americans are a pretty laid back bunch.

    We’re Status-Obsessed And Seek Attention - Attention seeking, maybe. Status obsessed though? I don't think so. I have no doubt there are citizens/parts of the country for which this stereotype is true, but by and large most of the people I run into on a day to day basis just want to make sure their kids are getting a good education and that they can pay for dinner.

    You know, like everyone else on the planet.

    We Are Very Unhealthy - No argument from me on this. I'm hoping my countrymen and women will change this though soon.

    We Mistake Comfort For Happiness - This is incredibly subjective. I'm an Si-dom, comfort and security is happiness for me. I'll grant that we work a lot, possibly more than we should, but I kind of like it. That's just me though.

    I know we've got flaws (healthcare, lack of manufacturing) but overall I love my home and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I'd love to go travel and see a lot of the places in the world...but this is where I always want to find my pillow
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  5. #155
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think it's more than that. There are many Americans who believe the US was chosen by God to be part of His divine plan. To those people, criticizing the US is the same as criticizing God or their religion.

    I recommend watching God In America, a PBS documentary on Christianity in the US. I found it to be quite informative and interesting.
    Certainly true, as I debated people like that for years. And they can't admit a single fault in the system as founded, so they have to blame everyone else, and that is the basis of much of their rhetoric today.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I would think that "multi-culturalism" is more about economic and political equalization of historically oppressed minority groups than about achieving some one "tan" race of people. The focus upon recognizing and appreciating difference in "lefty" discourse is huge precisely because they want to resist the pattern of erasing or suppressing difference under some unifying banner.
    Some extremists tend to think that if there were no race or religion that we would no longer have conflict, but this is irrational, IMO, and there would just be other things for people to divide themselves into groups about.

    However, enforced atheism has already been attempted by countries, only to have people go back to religion.

    I have other opinions about this, but this is not for this thread.

  7. #157
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    See, that response right there, is what I don't get. When they criticize the US, whether justified or not, it's not your personal integrity on the line, is it? I'll be honest, I love that you guys can actually accomplish something as a nation and stand together, but more often than not, it's also frightening as hell, as it can create a heated response at a moments notice which is hard to undo, I feel. Europe has its own issues with never getting anything done and being bogged down in bureaucracy, but I also have no problem admitting that, nor do I consider it unpatriotic and akin to being a traitor to say such a thing. It's almost..treason to say something bad about America as a country, or so it seems, and even more so if it is an american saying this. The accusation 'you're unpatriotic' would never be an accusation, just an observation where I come from..and it wouldn't be considered offensive at all

    Maybe I just don't get it coz I didn't grow up in your country. But it also makes me uneasy and scared of actually asking questions about it..as I just did.
    Yea wise words and that from a belgian .

    What I usually do not understand is why America doesnt care about its outer perceived image. When Germans found out the World perceived us as stoic emotionless automatons, we started to make jokes from that and smoothen the picture a bit. As in we laughed about ourselves. Thats a thing America could do as well. I know for example that since Bush the German impression of Americans is that the majority of them is dumb as shit and that the general education sucks in the states. I know (except for some exceptions) that this is wrong know, but only found out by actively getting to know you. You would have never told me.

    And thats a bit sad, cause you really can by looking at other cultures learn stuff for yourself. And with other cultures I mean them all, even the english. . And the best way to disproof stereotypes is not arguing about them, but exxageratedly confirm them, to make others think for themselves. Like when Will Smith told the 60s chief of the MIB squad that he put on his pants all by himself.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #158
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yea wise words and that from a belgian .

    What I usually do not understand is why America doesnt care about its outer perceived image. When Germans found out the World perceived us as stoic emotionless automatons, we started to make jokes from that and smoothen the picture a bit. As in we laughed about ourselves. Thats a thing America could do as well. I know for example that since Bush the German impression of Americans is that the majority of them is dumb as shit and that the general education sucks in the states. I know (except for some exceptions) that this is wrong know, but only found out by actively getting to know you. You would have never told me.

    And thats a bit sad, cause you really can by looking at other cultures learn stuff for yourself. And with other cultures I mean them all, even the english. . And the best way to disproof stereotypes is not arguing about them, but exxageratedly confirm them, to make others think for themselves. Like when Will Smith told the 60s chief of the MIB squad that he put on his pants all by himself.
    In my experience, many who would be interested in dispelling any image don't do that because they are oblivious.

    Politicians can be very loud and patriots are very loud, activists are very loud, but the reserved and peaceful American goes about their business so quietly and unobtrusively that we can almost forget they exist at times.

  9. #159
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    Was the guy who wrote this French?


    I hate the French. Untrustworthy lot, those Frenchmen.




    Okay, they're not too bad. But they've done some very questionable things in modern history that makes me wonder.

  10. #160
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    One last thing:
    [YOUTUBE=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQRShD0xuAk] "New World Man" [/youtube]

    He's a rebel and a runner
    He's a signal turning green
    He's a restless young romantic
    Wants to run the big machine
    He's got a problem with his poisons
    But you know he'll find a cure
    He's cleaning up his systems
    To keep his nature pure

    Learning to match the beat of the Old World Man
    Learning to catch the heat of the Third World Man

    He's got to make his own mistakes
    And learn to mend the mess he makes
    He's old enough to know what's right
    But young enough not to choose it
    He's noble enough to win the world
    But weak enough to lose it
    He's a New World Man...

    He's a radio receiver
    Tuned to factories and farms
    He's a writer and arranger
    And a young boy bearing arms
    He's got a problem with his power
    With weapons on patrol
    He's got to walk a fine line
    And keep his self-control

    Trying to save the day for the Old World Man
    Trying to pave the way for the Third World Man

    He's not concerned with yesterday
    He knows constant change is here today
    He's noble enough to know what's right
    But weak enough not to choose it
    He's wise enough to win the world
    But fool enough to lose it
    He's a New World Man...
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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