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  1. #131
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Why would I be banned for talking to you about social perceptions of the word fascism, and yes, you are defensive or else this wouldn't have become such a ludicrous conversation. It would have been all like "no actually I'm not a fascist, just a totalitarian dictator" or you could have said something funny, but instead you argued with me, called me a troll, etc. et al. You've even admitted you got annoyed, and used the term "emotionally charged" so yes I think you're upset about all of this, but my point still remains: being a totalitarian dictator is not any more morally sound than being a fascist, saying you want to kick out people who aren't like-minded, I'm sorry if I called this "hippopotamus" instead of "fascism" does that make it more palatable somehow? And you say you want to get away from extremists, but then say there are positive attributes to totalitarian dictatorships.

    Oh, Internet.
    I also didn't immediately respond "defensively", unless you consider "How so?" to be "defensive". It wasn't until you started attributing other traits, such as "laden with patriotism" to me that I got defensive. So your assertion that I was offended at the mere mention of fascism is simply incorrect.

    Do you ever get annoyed when people read things into your words that aren't there? If so, that's a trait we share.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #132
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You said you'd be a bouncer. Bouncers kick people out, and you said it was all about being like-minded.

    It doesn't matter, I don't care, I have conversations with people who are Nazi revisionists and don't even bat an eyelash, so what you're projecting on to me is false, just know.
    I said I would be "more like" a bouncer. It's a simile, not intended to be 100% accurate. And that was only in reference to someone saying I wanted complete control. I'm not interested in complete control. To make any further extrapolations based off of that statement would be foolish. A proper course of action for you would be to ask me to expound, but you're not interested. You're only interested in arguing with me.

    Nazi revisionist? LOL I'll repeat what I said earlier:

    I didn't go into nearly enough depth for you to make any of the judgments you made and I never intended to go into such depth because it was just a fantasy, not reality.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I also didn't immediately respond "defensively", unless you consider "How so?" to be "defensive". It wasn't until you started attributing other traits, such as "laden with patriotism" to me that I got defensive. So your assertion that I was offended at the mere mention of fascism is simply incorrect.

    Do you ever get annoyed when people read things into your words that aren't there? If so, that's a trait we share.
    How so isn't defensive, but when I described that being patriotic to a country where you decide who makes all the rules blah blah blah...yes, you took it personally, or took some kind of offense to it.

    So yes it seemed to me it's about your personal feelings, that it somehow provoked you to be called a fascist, even while defending totalitarianism (or at least usage of the word/concept, if not in practice).

    Fascist is not an emotionally charged word for me, and I personally think totalitarianism without fascism is equally distasteful. In fact, fascism might even be more preferable, as it implies an ideological passion for preserving one's own culture, where as totalitarianism by itself might just be about thought control with no concern for the culture and history of the people, which is more understandable to me from a human perspective, it's easier for me to sympathize why people might find this seductive, rather than thought control with the mindset of perhaps erasing the people's culture or history and replacing it with something that is foreign and invasive. Totalitarianism has broad usage, and can be used in conjunction with fascism in some cases, though obviously apart from it as well.

    This isn't about you, in case you interpreted it that way, I'm sorry, and I should have said this instead of questioning your type, but quite frankly it looks to me like a Feeling response that is not inferior for you to automatically presume it is somehow personal, some real judgment of you, and I am trolling you.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I said I would be "more like" a bouncer. It's a simile, not intended to be 100% accurate. And that was only in reference to someone saying I wanted complete control. I'm not interested in complete control. To make any further extrapolations based off of that statement would be foolish. A proper course of action for you would be to ask me to expound, but you're not interested. You're only interested in arguing with me.

    Nazi revisionist? LOL I'll repeat what I said earlier:
    Once again I never said you were a Nazi revisionist, how are you making this about you? I am simply stating a fact: I can even talk to the extremes, of Nazi revisionists, as long as they are calm and educated and not threatening to maim or kill people, and not be upset, so why would I be upset that you were talking about single-handedly controlling an imaginary nation.

  5. #135
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    How so isn't defensive, but when I described that being patriotic to a country where you decide who makes all the rules blah blah blah...yes, you took it personally, or took some kind of offense to it.

    So yes it seemed to me it's about your personal feelings, that it somehow provoked you to be called a fascist, even while defending totalitarianism (or at least usage of the word/concept, if not in practice).
    As I've said more than once, I was never offended. I view attempts to label with emotionally charged terms as intellectually disingenuous. And I have no respect for your intellectual capacity, so it follows that I would assume you would try to use a "dirty trick". Perhaps I was wrong and underestimated you, but this has nothing to do with my ability to be offended and everything to do with my low opinion of you.

    Fascist is not an emotionally charged word for me, and I personally think totalitarianism without fascism is equally distasteful. In fact, fascism might even be more preferable, as it implies an ideological passion for preserving one's own culture, where as totalitarianism by itself might just be about thought control with no concern for the culture and history of the people, which is more understandable to me from a human perspective, it's easier for me to sympathize why people might find this seductive, rather than thought control with the mindset of perhaps erasing the people's culture or history and replacing it with something that is foreign and invasive. Totalitarianism has broad usage, and can be used in conjunction with fascism in some cases, though obviously apart from it as well.
    Fascism is an emotionally charged word where I come from, totalitarianism is not. I could explain why this is the case, but it's not important and it would take more time than I am willing to invest.

    This isn't about you, in case you interpreted it that way, I'm sorry, and I should have said this instead of questioning your type, but quite frankly it looks to me like a Feeling response that is not inferior for you to automatically presume it is somehow personal, some real judgment of you, and I am trolling you.
    Actually, what I am is an NT (taken with a grain of salt because MBTI is mostly bullshit) who is acutely aware of how readily many people will use emotional arguments in lieu of logic. When I see people start to go down that path, sometimes I decide to "get out in front of it", so to speak. Perhaps I was wrong, here. But the source of that is my opinion of you. If, for example, Ivy made the exact same posts you made, I would have responded differently because I actually respect her.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #136
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    Just FYI, calling out names of people who you respect and saying you argue with them differently isn't very logical or rational of you, it's quite a feeling value judgment. And for you to say you have no respect for my intellectual capacity EVEN AFTER I SAY I AM SORRY AND EXPLAIN MYSELF AND YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE THE CONTENT OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT FASCISM AND TOTALITARIANISM isn't very rational either.

    Fascism is an emotionally charged word where you come from but totalitarianism is not, but you'd rather not explain it to me, even though I took the time to explain to you why this is rationally and morally foolish, in my opinion, because of the real nature of both things.

    I have nothing left to conclude except you are an ESFJ. I'm putting you on ignore now, not because you're an ESFJ, but because you're completely intolerable in your insistence that you're so intellectually superior even though you constantly put forth these emotional, value-laden conversations (like the whole circumcision thread) but then have the nerve to say *I* am intellectually disingenuous?

    If anything, I've thought more deeply about these political structures than you apparently have.

    Have a day.

  7. #137
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Once again I never said you were a Nazi revisionist, how are you making this about you? I am simply stating a fact: I can even talk to the extremes, of Nazi revisionists, as long as they are calm and educated and not threatening to maim or kill people, and not be upset, so why would I be upset that you were talking about single-handedly controlling an imaginary nation.
    In one post you talk about how I'm being "defensive" and how I was "offended", and in the next you say this conversation isn't about me.

    I am now annoyed that this has gone off topic for so long that it will be moved to the Graveyard (where it belongs). I am ashamed that you managed to get me to waste so many words over something so incredibly pointless.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #138
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Just FYI, calling out names of people who you respect and saying you argue with them differently isn't very logical or rational of you, it's quite a feeling value judgment. And for you to say you have no respect for my intellectual capacity EVEN AFTER I SAY I AM SORRY AND EXPLAIN MYSELF AND YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE THE CONTENT OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT FASCISM AND TOTALITARIANISM isn't very rational either.
    Actually, it's quite rational. Much of communication is about trust. I don't trust you, therefore it's virtually impossible for us to have reasonable discussion. In fact, I actively distrust you.

    Fascism is an emotionally charged word where you come from but totalitarianism is not, but you'd rather not explain it to me, even though I took the time to explain to you why this is rationally and morally foolish, in my opinion, because of the real nature of both things.
    It's off topic and you're not actually interested in my views. You're interested in arguing with me, going on and on about how I'm being "defensive" and "offended".

    I have nothing left to conclude except you are an ESFJ. I'm putting you on ignore now, not because you're an ESFJ, but because you're completely intolerable in your insistence that you're so intellectually superior even though you constantly put forth these emotional, value-laden conversations (like the whole circumcision thread) but then have the nerve to say *I* am intellectually disingenuous?
    The ultimate typologycentral insult, calling someone an ESFJ. Ouch! And putting me on ignore, I've never been so "offended" in my life.

    I hope this is the last time we interact, but I doubt it will be. You won't be able to help yourself.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #139
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    Because paranoia is totally rational and the longest relationship of my life and several of my best friends aren't ESFJs.

    Fe = constant value judging; Si = stubborn attachment that words like "fascism" and "ESFJ" must mean the same thing to everyone, despite vast evidence to the contrary.

    This is why I'm putting you on ignore, if you can comprehend that it's about your paranoia, etc. and not because I happen to think that you're an ExFJ, maybe ENFJ, but Fe dom, fo sho.

  10. #140
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Because paranoia is totally rational and the longest relationship of my life and several of my best friends aren't ESFJs.

    Fe = constant value judging; Si = stubborn attachment that words like "fascism" and "ESFJ" must mean the same thing to everyone, despite vast evidence to the contrary.

    This is why I'm putting you on ignore, if you can comprehend that it's about your paranoia, etc. and not because I happen to think that you're an ExFJ, maybe ENFJ, but Fe dom, fo sho.
    Internet = best place to judge personality because you get such a comprehensive image

    Why am I not on ignore already?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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