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  1. #111
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I think the point is that HE would have to be the dictator/absolutist monarch. It's about HIM having Power, not about living in any place with an authoritarian power structure. Big difference.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    No one likes to be called a fascist because it is an emotionally charged word, like calling someone a racist or a Marxist (in the US). You already knew this was the case before you used it.

    "Laden with patriotism"? Seriously? How does "There's only one nation that could make me feel patriotic, and that's a nation where I got to decide who got in." turn in to "laden with patriotism" in your mind? There's a huge gulf between those two. I don't think patriotism is a particularly worthy trait in the first place. I was only expressing my general misanthropy, not expressing a desire to create some sort of dystopian fascist state where I have complete control. I have no interest in such control. I just want to get away from the extremists on the left and the right in the US.
    Actually some people are perfectly fine with being called racists, and others are actually proud of being fascists, and I've had Marxist friends, so I think you may be speaking from a deep place of generalization when you say "no one." You're very touchy for an NT, I've noticed this, it's kind of odd, I make a tongue in cheek comment after you basically describe yourself as a dictator of your own country, and you're actually trying to argue with me.

    This is pretty funny. I must have hit a nerve.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't think patriotism is a particularly worthy trait in the first place.
    That makes one of us.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I think the point is that HE would have to be the dictator/absolutist monarch. It's about HIM having Power, not about living in any place with an authoritarian power structure. Big difference.
    Yes, and he would be the authoritarian power structure, and if there was patriotism and he could decide who got included and excluded, this would have to be founded on a rigid set of social norms.

    The only big difference is that a fascist state seeks to elevate itself, and he claimed no such thing.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I think the point is that HE would have to be the dictator/absolutist monarch. It's about HIM having Power, not about living in any place with an authoritarian power structure. Big difference.
    It's about being around like-minded people. Look at it more like me being a bouncer.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's about being around like-minded people. Look at it more like me being a bouncer.
    YES AND FASCISTS ENJOY LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE AS WELL.

    In a republic where there is freedom of speech, you cannot just throw out people because they aren't like-minded. You can't even do this in a reasonable democratic socialist country, you typically can only do such things under totalitarian dictatorships, because it's like a mind control issue, a oneness of mindset.

    Hence my tongue-in-cheek reference to fascism, which I know is much more organized and has intent to impose its presence upon others through self-glorification.

    But you'd still pretty much be a totalitarian dictator.

  7. #117
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    It is totalitarian. It is not fascist.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It is totalitarian. It is not fascist.
    Because totalitarian is so much less insulting? There's no logic to that. However, if you are clarifying that you'd be a totalitarian dictator but not a fascist state, then you answer my question (note that my original reply to you was a question!)

  9. #119
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Nothing to do with recent posts, just general comments on my OP:

    Like it or not, groups of people tend to get defined by the worst elements among them. Not all Catholic priests are pedophiles, not all Germans are Nazis, not all Americans are extreme fundamentalist Christians, not all Muslims are terrorists, not all INFJs are heartless doorslammers, etc., etc., etc. When we're in one of those particular groups, I would suppose that the first, knee-jerk reaction would be to generally defend the group that we're a part of because we feel that WE, personally, aren't like that, or it's not good to show weakness to other groups. But a blanket defense will only go so far to cover up real problems, and once those real problems can't be denied any more, defense of them will make the good among the group look just as guilty as the bad. So, IMO, it might be beneficial to admit there's a problem and try to fix it rather than defend it. If this can be done without too much fuss, outside of the public eye, then fine and dandy. But once the problem has gotten so bad that other groups are well aware of it, then it's time to show publicly that steps are being taken to try to fix it. Even if you can't fix it, the genuine effort will have an impact. If you're still just blowing smoke, people will figure that out and you'll be worse off than before.
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    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  10. #120
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Because totalitarian is so much less insulting? There's no logic to that. However, if you are clarifying that you'd be a totalitarian dictator but not a fascist state, then you answer my question (note that my original reply to you was a question!)
    Insulting? My personal feelings are irrelevant. Totalitarian doesn't evoke the same emotional response in other people as fascism. The important point being "other people". The ability to communicate an idea is greatly reduced if your audience is connects you with an emotionally charged label like fascism or racism.

    Totalitarian regimes have their strong points.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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