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  1. #31
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I personally would be more concerned about Japanese stabilization. Also, preemptive strike capability needs to be taken into consideration.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #32
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What do you think America's role in the world should be?
    Elvis, comic books, and hot dogs.

  3. #33
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Ummm... People were drafted into Vietnam, the American stand-by for unnecessary war.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Ummm... People were drafted into Vietnam, the American stand-by for unnecessary war.
    Yes and the public outcry to end that war was much stronger than any of our current engagements.

    What you've said is hardly an argument. The fact that the US went to war without great reason to do so while the draft was still in place, has absolutely no bearing on how eager the US would be to go to war now should the draft be reinstated.

    Our global cultures opinions on war have shifted considerably, especially after the US's last two military expeditions. Requiring a draft to occur prior to any substantive military engagement would only serve to make more difficult to entangle ourselves in the problems of others.

    Here is an article from foreignpolicy.com that you might find illuminating:

    McChrystal: Time to bring back the draft

    Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the former top commander of international forces in Afghanistan, said this week that the United States should bring back the draft if it ever goes to war again.

    "I think we ought to have a draft. I think if a nation goes to war, it shouldn't be solely be represented by a professional force, because it gets to be unrepresentative of the population," McChrystal said at a late-night event June 29 at the 2012 Aspen Ideas Festival. "I think if a nation goes to war, every town, every city needs to be at risk. You make that decision and everybody has skin in the game."

    He argued that the burdens of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan haven't been properly shared across the U.S. population, and emphasized that the U.S. military could train draftees so that there wouldn't be a loss of effectiveness in the war effort.

    "I've enjoyed the benefits of a professional service, but I think we'd be better if we actually went to a draft these days," he said. "There would some loss of professionalism, but for the nation it would be a better course."

    The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq placed unfair and extreme burdens on the professional military, especially reservists, and their families, McChrystal said.

    "We've never done that in the United State before; we've never fought an extended war with an all- volunteer military. So what it means is you've got a very small population that you're going to and you're going to it over and over again," he said. "Because it's less than one percent of the population... people are very supportive but they don't have the same connection to it."

    Reservists following multiple deployments have trouble maintaining careers and families and have a "frighteningly high" rate of suicide, he said.

    "The reserve structure is designed for major war, you fight and then you stop, but what we've done instead is gone back over and over to the same people," he said. "We're going to have to relook the whole model because I don't think we can do this again."

    McChrystal was speaking at a panel focused on how to manage marriage in the military. He was joined by Annie, his wife of 35 years, and the discussion was moderated by CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

    Multiple deployments often result in divorces and split families, he said.

    "The marriages I see most strained are the senior NCOs and officers who have four or five tours... you're apart so much that it's hard to have a marriage if you're not together at least a critical mass of time, and that's tough," McChrystal said.

    Malveaux asked McChrystal how he has managed to get through 35 years of marriage.

    "One day at a time," he responded.

  5. #35
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Are you guys seriously making this solely about politics. That's not close to what role countries truly play. Life is not a game of Risk.

  6. #36
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    Or this article from Time.com:

    The Case for Bringing Back the Draft

    The politics of war would be profoundly different if more Americans had a direct connection with the military

    Charles Rangel of New York has been in the news for two reasons in recent years. First, for allegations of corruption concerning a Puerto Rico vacation spot, a story that gave readers of New York City tabloids an indelible snapshot of a dozing Rangel at the beach. Second, the Congressman is in a difficult primary battle in his district.

    He should be better known for a piece of legislation he has sponsored in several different sessions of Congress, never to any avail. Known as HR 5741, it would essentially reinstate a service draft for Americans from the ages of 21 to 42, thus ending the all-volunteer military force that has fought wars for us since the latter years of Vietnam.

    It is Memorial Day, the best of moments to weigh how well — or how poorly — we apportion the military burdens of defending American interests.

    Without a draft, we are given a great and dangerous luxury: we are, in the main, able to consign our war fighting to a largely isolated force of brave volunteers. The military is a noble calling, and many choose to serve for many different reasons. Whether it is because of family tradition or because a recruit has few other options in life for socioeconomic reasons, the result is that the majority of Americans have little direct connection with the military.

    Without that direct connection, the politics of war are inescapably different than what they would be if the children of the most influential families in communities across America were at risk of being drafted to face fire at the front.

    It is difficult to imagine that the wars in Afghanistan and in Iraq would have been conducted in the ways they were (and still are) if a large-scale draft had been in effect in America since 2001.

    This is a long-running debate in policy circles, and there are sundry studies and proposals about systems of military and civilian national service in exchange for student loans and other GI Bill–type benefits. (The arguments put forward in a 2005 Washington Monthly piece by Phillip Carter and Paul Glastris is a good place to start a study of the question. William F. Buckley Jr. also argued for voluntary service in his book Gratitude.)

    It is true that the military leadership has long opposed a draft, but that view, while important, should not foreclose a debate about the issue. And there is no doubt that we have enough national needs at home, particularly in schools, that a civilian program of service, implemented well, would be a boon for poorer communities.

    Say a prayer today, then, for the war dead, and for those who are standing watch now. And then tomorrow let’s set to work to share the burden of defending what we have, and improving who we are.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Are you guys seriously making this solely about politics. That's not close to what role countries truly play. Life is not a game of Risk.
    Last time I checked this was in the politics and current events section.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Would you consider the UK a US satellite state?

    Also, re: your second post, what do you think about the surge in laser attacks against US planes?



    The US has been doing this since its inception. It's how we got control of Hawaii, the Panama canal, took Indian territory , all the incursions in central America, and in the Mideast. Don't forget the implications of the Louisiana purchase on the political climate in Europe when Napoleon sold it just days after promising not to the Mexican American war, etc.

    @DiscoBiscuit. I like the draft idea, but if you withdraw bases particularly in the Pacific you can bet your ass China is going to try to file the power vacuum
    I definitely would consider the UK to be a US satellite, Churchill was seriously Ameriophile because the thought that the UK was in decline, the empire would disappear and the US would remain the true home of anglosaxon capitalism red in tooth and claw but even he was realistic enough to suggest that the UK would be very much the junior partner in any "special relationship".

    The laser attacks I think are just urban assholery, in the UK kids are going to do stuff like this and attempt to bring down planes because they are immature and cant tell the difference between real life and grand theft auto. It was well seen to be the case during the rioting in england not too long ago.

  9. #39
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Last time I checked this was in the politics and current events section.
    So what? You asked a pretty loaded question. There's a lot to address here. You could take one angle so seriously that you miss how nations truly affect the world. I'm not joking above about Elvis btw. Rock n Roll probably plays a bigger part than anything political. Just like we remember the Greeks for their myths and philosophers more than we do the conquests of Alexander. Or what could you say about Italy, historically speaking? It's not just Romans. There's Catholicism, the Renaissance, hell, even the mafia. They all play a part.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    So what? You asked a pretty loaded question. There's a lot to address here. You could take one angle so seriously that you miss how nations truly affect the world. I'm not joking above about Elvis btw. Rock n Roll probably plays a bigger part than anything political. Just like we remember the Greeks for their myths and philosophers more than we do the conquests of Alexander. Or what could you say about Italy historically speaking? It's not just Romans. There's Catholicism, the Renaissance, hell, even the mafia. They all play a part.
    Yes they do. But those cultural considerations pretty squarely outside of the scope of the question.

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