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  1. #21
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Imposition of ideology with authoritarian force on smaller nations.
    I'm not even sure that was the USSR's goal either, they supported nationalist and ethnic struggles in other nations they did not at home and it was much more about buffers, satellites, denying the US bases for missile installations or platforms for launching troops or planes from in the event of a wider conflagration.

    To be honest I think this is still going on, OK the end of the cold war rocked the Russians for a while and they had to find their feet and adjust to the rise of the oligarchs and those same oligarchs may have differences with the state's rackets but I think a lot of the dust has settled and its back to the original great game. Its seriously on the down low, deniable, unreported, the plebs are not informed so they arent frightened and can carry on business as usual.

    A lot of the menaces and troubles are less pronounced too, lots of proxy battles through criminal or terror connections.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not even sure that was the USSR's goal either, they supported nationalist and ethnic struggles in other nations they did not at home and it was much more about buffers, satellites, denying the US bases for missile installations or platforms for launching troops or planes from in the event of a wider conflagration.
    It still doesn't erase what they actually did. When the USSR dissolved people got their own countries and cultures back.

    To be honest I think this is still going on, OK the end of the cold war rocked the Russians for a while and they had to find their feet and adjust to the rise of the oligarchs and those same oligarchs may have differences with the state's rackets but I think a lot of the dust has settled and its back to the original great game. Its seriously on the down low, deniable, unreported, the plebs are not informed so they arent frightened and can carry on business as usual.
    All of this is common knowledge. It's not unreported, either.

    A lot of the menaces and troubles are less pronounced too, lots of proxy battles through criminal or terror connections.
    Mmmhmm.

  3. #23
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    I believe we should continue investment in our infrastructure while supplying the world as it inquires with resources we feel would benefit americans at home and abroad.

  4. #24
    Member MXZCCT's Avatar
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    America needs to cut it's losses to take a step back for a breather. An objective self analysis. This is a simple solution, yet extremely complicated to bring to fruition.

    The debt is killing us. The wars are draining us. America has too many leeches stuck to it's wallet and not enough income to keep pace with the demands. Our biggest problem is that Americans has outgrown our means of living. We want the fastest car with the highest gas mileage. We want the fatty foods and still keep a healthy lifestyle.

    America does not have its priorities straight. It's time to wake up and smell the roses.

  5. #25
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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  6. #26
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    Alright I'm finally getting to this.

    Before I get to anything else I first and foremost think there needs to be a fundamental rethink of the US military role abroad. That isn't to say that we can't continue to be a global military leader, just that we can't assume we can grow our military unendingly and without any consideration about our ability to pay for it.

    In this vein, I would like to see a serious discussion within our military leadership about how to maintain our ability to project force globally in the most cost effective manner possible.

    Ultimately, this conversation is going to have bearing on the nature of our standing treaties with our allies. I'm of the opinion that the world has changed since we entered into our international treaties post WWII. Countries that originally asked for our help and protection post WWII are now recovered from that war and are now capable of meeting their own defense needs.

    If I were the grand pubah of the US I would immediately renegotiate our treaties with ally nations. I would pull out of all foreign bases except the most strategic bases we have. I would probably leave five or six bases in foreign countries running, but all the rest would be mothballed. I would keep a base in Europe, the Middle east, Africa, Asia and South America. That would be it. I would only keep these bases open in case we needed to move a ton of troops to one of those parts of the world quickly. Besides that, I would prefer that our Navy take over the role of global US force projection almost entirely.

    I also think that it's too easy for US to go to war now that we don't have the draft anymore. I'll probably catch hell for this, but I would bring back the draft, so that the entire US populace has skin in the game if we go to war. That way we won't go to war unless we REALLY need to.

    I think we need to, while maintaining our role as the example to the world as Kyu said, begin to require a greater level of multilateral involvement internationally.

    The US military can't be the magic wand the rest of the world asks us to pull out of our pocket anytime things abroad get too difficult for them to want to deal with.

    I would make a rule that in peacekeeping missions, US forces can never account for more than 50% of the total force used. And I would prefer that number to be somewhere around 25%.

    This is the ground work painted in some fairly broad strokes. I will probably get more specific later.

  7. #27
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    America's role is something I think Americans should think about first and foremost.

    While a lot of people in the english speaking world are critical of the US they still benefit from the US being world hegemon, they also benefit from the geopolitical stalemate which American power, including its more ugly varieties, has created with the Russians and Chinese. The reality is that if the US quit the imperialism game it would not mean that imperialism per se would disappear and there could well be much worse alternatives. States which follow even more viciously capitalistic or oligarchical codes than the US (yes, really).

    Although I would understand that if the majority of US citizens decided they wanted that to change for good, it costs a lot and does not necessarily make US citizens safer, it can get them killed by strangers they've never heard of or whose grievance they dont understand or find interesting.

    That said I really dont think that US citizens or the citizens of US satellite states are ready for a Post-US hegemony world, there wouldnt be the same prosperity or privileges that go with the status quo and I dont think that those are things people are prepared to live without, even if its just simple "we're no. one" thinking.
    Would you consider the UK a US satellite state?

    Also, re: your second post, what do you think about the surge in laser attacks against US planes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Imposition of ideology with authoritarian force on smaller nations.
    The US has been doing this since its inception. It's how we got control of Hawaii, the Panama canal, took Indian territory , all the incursions in central America, and in the Mideast. Don't forget the implications of the Louisiana purchase on the political climate in Europe when Napoleon sold it just days after promising not to the Mexican American war, etc.

    @DiscoBiscuit. I like the draft idea, but if you withdraw bases particularly in the Pacific you can bet your ass China is going to try to file the power vacuum
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Would you consider the UK a US satellite state?

    Also, re: your second post, what do you think about the surge in laser attacks against US planes?



    The US has been doing this since its inception. It's how we got control of Hawaii, the Panama canal, took Indian territory , all the incursions in central America, and in the Mideast. Don't forget the implications of the Louisiana purchase on the political climate in Europe when Napoleon sold it just days after promising not to the Mexican American war, etc.

    @DiscoBiscuit. I like the draft idea, but if you withdraw bases particularly in the Pacific you can bet your ass China is going to try to file the power vacuum
    Not with our carriers in the pacific they won't.

  9. #29
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Not with our carriers in the pacific they won't.
    Those carriers require resupply and the troops shore leave. If we do it from the mainland our ability to respond quickly will be interrupted and we'd have to set up staging areas in waters where the opponent has much higher response time because of proximity to their own supply chain.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Those carriers require resupply and the troops shore leave. If we do it from the mainland our ability to respond quickly will be interrupted and we'd have to set up staging areas in waters where the opponent has much higher response time because of proximity to their own supply chain.
    Which is why I'd keep a base in Asia. I would make sure that the base was relatively close to Taiwan.

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