User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 29

  1. #11

    Default

    I've been shocked by how extensive this is, I read lots about it but it has been used by US conservatives to argue that women havent a place in the army, I dont even think all the victims were women, and its blaming the victim of the first order to think that way.

    Its either the calibre of recruits, the culture in the military or the consequences of war trauma but its messed up, serious war horror material like Platoon or Universal Soldier or the like. Where did the earlier codes of conduct and discipline go to? Contrast the soldiers in Forbidden Planet and those in post-vietnam Alienns for instance.

    I watched a documentary about one of the craziest squads in either afghanistan and iraq and there was a scene in which drunken US squaddies were running into each others fists and this guy wound up with broken teeth and messed up lips, lots of blood and it wasnt fake or anything. Shocking. I remember in that documentary that a commanding officer responded by saying it was a stunt from a popular TV show, Jackass, and things like it happened in college fraternities and it wasnt any big deal. These guys after discharge were all responsible for crime waves and some vicious shit. I just think that sort of behaviour is not that far removed from the violence of rape.

  2. #12
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That's a pretty shallow reckoning of religion and defence Victor.
    As you know I prefer to go deeper. And as I delved deeper into the New Testament I discovered Jesus said not a word against institutional slavery, athough he was surrounded by it - quite unlike his contempory Spartacus.

    And as I delved into the history of the military, I found standing armies only a recent invention. And it is standing armies that make total war possible as well as preparing us all for mass killings such as the recent mass killing of 3.1 million Vietnamese.

  3. #13
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    As you know I prefer to go deeper. And as I delved deeper into the New Testament I discovered Jesus said not a word against institutional slavery, athough he was surrounded by it - quite unlike his contempory Spartacus.
    I don't know what you consider delving deep, but you seem incredibly ignorant of what the Bible teaches for someone so inclined to condemn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke 4:16-21
    16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read.
    17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
    18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
    19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
    20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.
    21 And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't know what you consider delving deep, but you seem incredibly ignorant of what the Bible teaches for someone so inclined to condemn it.
    C'mon, even in Luke 4:18 he doesn't condemn institutional slavery. In fact we had to wait eighteen hundred years in Christendom for institutional slavery to be abolished for the first time in history. And no thanks to Jesus but thanks to the Enlightenment.

    So I suspect you start off a priori that Jesus is perfect and then try to establish it. And I can understand that it is a tragedy for you to discover Jesus had feet of clay. But Jesus even believed the world would end in his own lifetime or that of his followers, but in 2012 we know Jesus was wrong on this very important point, so perhaps he was wrong on others too.

  5. #15
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    C'mon, even in Luke 4:18 he doesn't condemn institutional slavery. In fact we had to wait eighteen hundred years in Christendom for institutional slavery to be abolished for the first time in history. And no thanks to Jesus but thanks to the Enlightenment.
    I'm mystified by your lack of appreciation for the poetic nature of the bible. Long before Jesus came god delivered the Jews from slavery. Then God instituted radical reforms in society, referenced above by Jesus, in which slaves would be freed every 7 years. The Jews loved their Father for delivering them from slavery and giving them continuing mercy in the year of jubilee. Because God had liberated their bodies the Jews had every reason to believe that the son would liberate their souls.



    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So I suspect you start off a priori that Jesus is perfect and then try to establish it. And I can understand that it is a tragedy for you to discover Jesus had feet of clay.
    And, I suspect you start off a priori that man is autonomous and any god is a necessary threat to true human freedom. So it doesn't matter what the bible actually teaches, because as long as there is a creator man does not belong to himself and god is merely out to shackle humankind. Of course your problem is that if man is naturally free then he is also limitless in his ability to obtain whatever property he desires without moral constraint. There is a reason why so many men of the enlightenment were deists and had the good sense to recognize that at the very least there is a creator.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But Jesus even believed the world would end in his own lifetime or that of his followers, but in 2012 we know Jesus was wrong on this very important point, so perhaps he was wrong on others too.
    The world did end in his lifetime. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Again, your lack of appreciation for the poetic astounds me.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #16
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    It is more extensive than I care to talk about. It's a very touchy subject.

    I had a conversation with my friend, a French marine, where he said, "Well, it is okay that they did not let you stay in our compound at least they are protecting you." To which I replied, "It is my own men I need protecting from." Without even thinking about it.

    I am lucky in that I'm strong willed and hard-headed and loud. But I cannot say there was never a time where I had to fight a man off of me before. (It was a quick fight. A punch to the face, and a couple pushes, and I was free.) The man later on tried to apologize, and while I found the apology sincere there are some things that cannot be forgiven via face-to-face discussion and continued social interaction. It's awful, because you're already at war and have a mission and all the stuff happening at home to focus on.. and men put that extra amount of pressure on us from incidents like this.

    Not that it doesn't happen to men as well.. Male on male rape is quite a staggering occurrence as well.

    The problem, I feel, stems from the fact that the military is ran like it's own mini-environment. We're an entirely different niche, with secrets and living conditions and privileges outside of the civilian sector. We must, generally, rely on our superiors to be the ones to effectively handle things. People are not accountable for their mistakes in ANY section of the army, so it makes sense that this is one of them.

    With that said, I don't really trust or have much love for higher officers and superiors. The higher in the ranks someone is, the more I automatically assume them to be an individual that I dislike.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    2,841

    Default

    The structure of any military institution should be readjusted so that incidents like this occur at all, although I'm not sure if we'll ever have a military complex to such a degree of moral perfection.

    Rapists however, can be killed. I think it's a, fitting punishment.

    EDIT: Here's an idea; what if we created a drug that limited sexual desires within the brain? If some can control themselves then why not use external devices to dictate their behaviors and thoughts? Something like that could be tested, experimented, and administered to all military personnel.

  8. #18
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    If some can control themselves then why not use external devices to dictate their behaviors and thoughts? Something like that could be tested, experimented, and administered to all military personnel.
    Please tell me you aren't serious.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #19
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    The structure of any military institution should be readjusted so that incidents like this occur at all, although I'm not sure if we'll ever have a military complex to such a degree of moral perfection.

    Rapists however, can be killed. I think it's a, fitting punishment.

    EDIT: Here's an idea; what if we created a drug that limited sexual desires within the brain? If some can control themselves then why not use external devices to dictate their behaviors and thoughts? Something like that could be tested, experimented, and administered to all military personnel.
    You want to create an army of eunuchs?
    Perhaps we should also force them to change their name everyday lest they get too caught up in their own identity.

    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    2,841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Please tell me you aren't serious.
    What? The drug would only limit impulses motivated by sexual desires; rather than wait until a soldier commits or attempts inappropriate acts, they would be prevented from even thinking about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    You want to create an army of eunuchs?
    Perhaps we should also force them to change their name everyday lest they get too caught up in their own identity.

    Hyperbole. I'm not suggesting that we render them into mindless drones or anything, just slight altercation of their behaviors to conform to a higher standard. In a sense, it would be the equivalent of administering mood stabilizer drugs to a group of people where half of them half mood disorders. it fixes those with the disorders while bringing no harm or significant change to those with an already normal state of mind.

    Additionally, it could be argued that personal identity within the military isn't actually important at all, given that one of the first things they do to new recruits is shave their heads and dress them in identical uniforms (all of which is suppose to break down the idea of self importance; that's how militaries are suppose to operate).

Similar Threads

  1. The Banned and The Damned
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 07:12 PM
  2. DSM and the war over what being human means
    By Olm the Water King in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-16-2016, 11:11 AM
  3. The Increased Use of Military Drones and its Impact
    By iwakar in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 02-10-2012, 08:21 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ and the Military
    By bgmINFP/J in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 02-22-2011, 11:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO