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  1. #21
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I guess it depends on the spin you want to add.

    I'm sure he'd say he's helping the middle-class by not expecting them to pick up the tab for people who don't have health insurance.

    But that's all elections are about anyway: Who can create the most believable spin.

    Just curious: Are you for Romney, or just against Obama? (no judgment, I just see the two positions as different). I'm not thrilled about Romney whatsoever. Not sure where I stand if I had to evaluate my "pro-obama" leanings.

    Another set of comments of interest from the blog:

    I'm against Obama. When he was running I only agreed with his foreign affairs policy. Now that he's shown himself to be just as much a warmonger as Bush I hardly agree with him on anything.

    I want to be loyal to the republican party as going through the party system is the only way to bring about political change. However, I find it difficult to support Romney for reasons both liberals and conservatives criticize him. I think I'll eventually fall in line, but I wonder if I'm willing to support Romney just how much am I willing to compromise my values in support of the lesser evil? I think I'll try to set specific, personal, fundamental requirements for candidates I support.

    Among the top requirements will be not being directly responsible for innocent deaths unless engaged in declared war. Obviously, while Mitt (at least to my knowledge!) meets this I have every reason to believe he will continue with drone bombings.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #22
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    I guess the young now get to look forward to more directly footing the bill for the diabetics and the old.

    Yipee.

  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Words cannot adequately convey the depths of my anger and despair.

    John Roberts and four other Justices have pulled the plug on the Tenth Amendment (already on life support), revoking federalism itself through judicial fiat. I am pissed beyond belief, and will not rest untill a.) Obamacare is overturned politically, thereby buying time for the Constitution itself to survive as a mechanism of limited government and b.) the balance of the Supreme Court has shifted. Until that day, its total political warfare, no quarter asked for or given....the Constitution itself is at stake.

    You guys thought things were polarized before? You ain't seen nothing yet....Constitutional conservatives have nothing to lose, now.

  4. #24
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Words cannot adequately convey the depths of my anger and despair.

    John Roberts and four other Justices have pulled the plug on the Tenth Amendment (already on life support), revoking federalism itself through judicial fiat. I am pissed beyond belief, and will not rest untill a.) Obamacare is overturned politically, thereby buying time for the Constitution itself to survive as a mechanism of limited government and b.) the balance of the Supreme Court has shifted. Until that day, its total political warfare, no quarter asked for or given....the Constitution itself is at stake.

    You guys thought things were polarized before? You ain't seen nothing yet....Constitutional conservatives have nothing to lose, now.

    Edit: Well, it seems (I'm still unclear about this) that they did not technically expand the Commerce clause (which is something); if true, it prevents the possible enrenchment of Obamacare from tying the hands of future Supreme Courts as far as the Commerce Clause is concerned. The practical effect on the healthcare issue is the same, but the long-term implications are not necessarily irrevocable.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    ...You guys thought things were polarized before? You ain't seen nothing yet....Constitutional conservatives have nothing to lose, now.
    Well, not besides the November election, at least...

    Well, you know Roberts is a conservative; why do you think he went the direction he did with this? Note that it was only the third item out of three that they ended up supporting as a majority (the Commerce Clause and Necessary and Proper Clauses bombed... those are the two arguments I think would be what you're against, so that seems to suggest SCOTUS is not as extreme as you're saying).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    @tinker683:

    From Abcnews:
    Under the law, people who do not have health insurance will have to pay 1 percent of their income to the IRS starting in 2014. (There are exceptions for some religious beliefs and financial hardship.)
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...135554880.html
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Haha, "financial hardship." That's basically everyone who doesn't have health insurance.



  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Note that it was only the third item out of three that they ended up supporting as a majority (the Commerce Clause and Necessary and Proper Clauses bombed... those are the two arguments I think would be what you're against, so that seems to suggest SCOTUS is not as extreme as you're saying).
    You're right, I need to investigate the implications of this further-I do feel better knowing that the Commerce Clause and Necessary and Proper Clause was not used to justify the decision. I think interpretation on taxing power are less irrevocable and far-reaching than interpretations on the other two, but I need to investigate further before deciding whether this is simply a bad loss or a national catastrophe.

    Edit: As for Roberts, I simply don't yet know the details of his decision and how consistent it is whith previous opinions. His old Law Professor predicted his vote, I need to look it up to see if any illumination is to be found there.

  9. #29
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    It's actually an impressively conservative ruling on Roberts' part, and a clear demonstration of his skills as a jurist.

    It's conservative because it relies on a founding Constitutional principle - that Congress has a plenary taxation power. It also relies on one of the oldest rules of construction, that it is not enough to declare an Act of Congress unconstitutional simply because the Federal Government argued for a power it did not have, if that Act fell within another expressly enumerated power of Congress. It upholds a commitment to federalism and an opposition to federal coercive power over the states in the part that overturns the Medicare mandate, relying heavily on established precedent. Even if I disagree with some of his conclusions from a policy perspective, there is no doubt that Roberts nailed this one with his legal reasoning.

  10. #30
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hrm....thats not too bad. Now I'll have to wait and see how prices of health insurance move in response to all of this to make a decision.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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