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  1. #81
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    I'll say this, the efforts of some members of the Texas GOP to use education as a method by which to indoctrinate students to their way of thinking will be no more affective than Liberal college professors trying to do the same thing.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    It may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but OBE leads to teachers artificially boosting student test scores and dumbing-down tests. in the long run, no student stands out as superlative. In a situation where everybody gets a blue ribbon, they are all reduced to sameness and mediocrity.

    I don't know what "critical thinking" has to do with this, but that part seems more oriented toward the anti-authoritarian stance. I'm not against critical thinking, on the other hand, I don't think children should be de facto running the classrooms and the households they live in.
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    Oh, yes. The Texas GOP also opposes the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

    But then you should realize that the US has never signed this treaty either. While it may seem fair enough to protect the rights of a child, there have been concerns over failing to protect the rights of the parents. There is also a states' rights issue involved, in which the individual states of the US would be bound by a treaty signed by the federal government. Individual states are certainly free to pass legislation protecting children's rights, at least they are at this point in time.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    With texas being at the lowest possible end of the educational spectrum in the United States, it's pretty clear that whatever is driving them... it ain't working. 49th lowest English scores, 45th lowest math scores? (out of 50 states... and the US takes a beating in the global scale of quality education.) Really, after you clear away all the dogma, those numbers kind of stand for themselves.
    I think this would happen no matter who was in charge because Texas has such huge educational power both inside and outside of the state. The people running things in Texas will always be more concerned with political agendas than with actually educating kids.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Being from Pennsyltucky, I can't really find fault with your logic here. Basically, the dogma drives the pushback, and then sometimes more legitimate reasons are dug out to support the pushback. It's pretty standard operation of that kind of mentality.
    Hmm. Wow we posted really close to each other Jen… and addressed the same exact post… so weird. I’d almost be tempted to think you were trying to imply I was one of the people with “that kind of mentality” who “digs out sometimes more legitimate reasons to support the pushback” (which weren’t actually addressed) if I didn’t know you better.

    So let’s review –

    People opposing OBE are “dogma”-blind crusaders “with that kind of mentality” who have no intrinsic concern about the nation’s educational system (and any "sometimes legitimate" arguments are motivated by bias) vs. proponents of OBE whose own dogma isn’t driving the push for it and who aren’t trying to advance their own values and priorities.

    Wait, wait…. :yim_rolling_on_the_

    So in that case, we find both sides are equal. And that really is the icky part – that someone would have the audacity to have their own ideas and oppose the movement’s own dogma and the values they are trying to advance and impose. They just won’t fall into line. So we’ll attempt to shame them and label them and slander their motivation until they do what we want.


  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Hmm. Wow we posted really close to each other Jen… and addressed the same exact post… so weird. I’d almost be tempted to think you were trying to imply I was one of the people with “that kind of mentality” who “digs out sometimes more legitimate reasons to support the pushback” (which weren’t actually addressed) if I didn’t know you better.
    If it helps, I haven't read any of your posts in this thread. So thanks for trusting in my best intent, you were right.

    People opposing OBE are “dogma”-blind crusaders “with that kind of mentality” who have no intrinsic concern about the nation’s educational system (and any "sometimes legitimate" arguments are motivated by bias) vs. proponents of OBE whose own dogma isn’t driving the push against and who aren’t trying to advance their own values and priorities.
    Those are your words, not mine.

    Typically in the depths of "Pennsyltucky," you get a lot of people without college education, who don't read much, who have pretty conservative values, who don't like new things entering their environment and are wary of outsiders, who vote for candidates based on their religious values on a few key issues, and don't really see a problem with turning their faith into a political institution. I'm not saying everyone, it's just the "middle of the bell curve." Don't tell me it's not true, I spent years and years feeling oppressed in that environment even by people I liked, because I wasn't cut from the same mold.

    Even the most general reading of the Texas Republicans statements shows the entire thing to be derived from very conservative/Baptist Christian values, similar to the environment in which I grew up in and lived in for years.

    Wait, wait…. :yim_rolling_on_the_
    I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, since this entire conflict on your part is fabricated as far as you've included me in it.

    So in that case, we find both sides are equal. And that really is the icky part – that someone would have the audacity to have their own ideas and oppose the movement’s own dogma and the values they are trying to advance and impose. They just won’t fall into line. So we’ll attempt to shame them and label them and slander their motivation until they do what we want.
    It's a shame that some people do that, or that they misrepresent my position. As I've said, I haven't read any of your comments, and you've grossly misinterpreted my comments or at least haven't understood the context I made them in.

    I can't see your video, I'm at work. So I have no idea whether it was constructive or it was just yet one more ill-founded poke at my intellectual integrity.

    I guess i take back my first comment, it's clear you read the worst intent into my comments without asking me to clarify first.

    I don't feel like dealing with Fi zealotry today, in what was a detached conversation for me. So see ya, I'm done.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I think this would happen no matter who was in charge because Texas has such huge educational power both inside and outside of the state. The people running things in Texas will always be more concerned with political agendas than with actually educating kids.
    This is an excellent point. Then again, I'd also argue that education is always political, because it's inherently an attempt to impose some sort of control on future outcomes.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I think this would happen no matter who was in charge because Texas has such huge educational power both inside and outside of the state. The people running things in Texas will always be more concerned with political agendas than with actually educating kids.
    This is an excellent point. Then again, I'd also argue that education is always political, because it's inherently an attempt to impose some sort of control on future outcomes.

  9. #89
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    Well, that explains a lot about my public schooling experience in Texas.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia.
    The part I can’t get over is that to blindly rant and rally to arms over this demonstrates a lack of awareness of all the possible situations that could be really going on here, and shows exactly how gullible people really are and a lack of critical thinking skills – which is the really ironic and humorous part.
    I'm starting to have more issues with the platform than just this piece of the pie, thank you very much. How they wrote this isn't by accident. Even with just a basic understanding of sentence structure, you'll notice that it is terribly wrong indeed.

    We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) [They oppose HOTS, Critical thinking, and OBE. Note: 3 things they oppose.] which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority." [They equate HOTS, Critical Thinking, and OBE as challenging a student's fixed belief and parental authority.]
    There is a lot of contradictions in this sentence alone.

    Whether they chose to use HOTS and OBE as examples of what kind of "critical thinking" they oppose isn't the problem. The problem is that they oppose HOTS, critical thinking, AND OBE. The problem is that they have a problem with challenging a students fixed beliefs. The problem I have is that they want their children to be subservient to their parents thoughts and wishes without questioning where it is coming from.

    It is like @Lateralus said. You can speak about HOTS and OBE, but you really don't need to lump critical thinking with them (ESPECIALLY in this manner.) You really don't need to think challenging a student's fixed beliefs to an affront to parental authority. Having this in the platform is either intended, or the platform do not know about sentence structure - either chase is bad.

    Also...

    I only chose the first video because (the second one I added because he isn't as abrasive):
    1: He's a Youtube comedian
    2: It shows my disgust for the matter in a (though not entirely) funny way.

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