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  1. #41
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    They. Said. It. Specifically. In. Their. Platform.
    They worded the platform poorly, but their intention is clear:


    "Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Probably because Chopra is a little less "I'm a second-tier, you're a first-tier, neener, neener, neener!" That's less satisfying for a narcissist.
    No, tbh, I've barely even listened to him.

    He just reeks of such lame bullshit I can't even bother to get started with him.

    But it is hilarious how much your "critique" of me runs exactly inline with what Wilber's model would predict.

    There is such a thing as genuine, true, and real hierarchy in this world, as much as Greens don't want to admit it.

    The fact that I happen to rank higher than the vast majority of people is merely a fact; I'm sorry that that fact bothers you so much.

    Believe it or not, I think there are people "better" than me, and I wouldn't expect them to falsely lower themselves just to make me feel better.

    Why you'd expect me to do so is a sign that you either resent me for my actual superiority, or think you're in a position to say I'm not actually better.

    If it's the former, then my belief is justified; and, if it's the latter, then you presume yourself in a superior position, thus negating your criticism of me.

    I'd also like to make mention of the irony that, while you complain about my claim of my superiority, you pop into every one of these types of threads to drop a note about your own superiority over these (primarily Blue meme) groups and individuals.

    And, once again, this is hilariously inline with exactly what Wilber's model would predict.


  3. #43
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No, tbh, I've barely even listened to him.

    He just reeks of such lame bullshit I can't even get started with him.

    But it is hilarious how much your "critique" of me runs exactly inline with what Wilber's model would predict.

    There is such a thing as genuine, true, and real hierarchy in this world, as much as Greens don't want to admit it.

    The fact that I happen to rank higher than the vast majority of people is merely a fact; I'm sorry that it bothers you so much.

    Believe it or not, I think there are people "better" than me, and I wouldn't expect them to falsely lower themselves just to make me feel better.

    Why you'd expect me to do so is a sign that you either resent me for my actual position, or think you're in a position to say I'm not actually better.

    Ironically, if it's the former, then my belief is justified; if it's the latter, then you presume yourself in a higher position, thus negating your criticism of me.

    It's funny how a healthy amour de soi -- something we all should strive to possess -- is called narcissism once another person has strong enough resentment for you.

    (Which is not to deny that narcissism exists, but I'd gladly make a large wager that if I were to see a psychologist, ten times out of ten they'd say I don't have NPD.)
    You're more delusional than I thought.
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  4. #44
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    They worded the platform poorly, but their intention is clear:


    "Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
    "Challenging the student's fixed beliefs" is the definition of any kind of critical thinking, and not just that associated with a particular pedagogical style.

    They have a problem with "challenging the student's fixed beliefs," because that is perceived as "undermining parental authority." That is, schools are to refrain from any teaching regimen that encourages children to make their own judgments, because, regardless of fact, the student must believe the same thing the parents do.

    That doesn't strike you as just a little off?

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    They worded the platform poorly, but their intention is clear:


    "Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
    I think they just threw Outcome-Based Education out there in an attempt to lend some legitimacy to their position. The truth is, they want to make sure their kids don't question whether or not there really was a flood or some guy rose from the dead 2000 years ago.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #46
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think they just threw Outcome-Based Education out there in an attempt to lend some legitimacy to their position. The truth is, they want to make sure their kids don't question whether or not there really was a flood or some guy rose from the dead 2000 years ago.
    Or even more pertinently, whether it was right for all those white people to breach their agreement with their lawful government, rebel against that government, kill all those brown people, and kill all those American Indians just so they could own black people as property. Ladies and gentlemen, the Texas Revolution

  7. #47
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    "Challenging the student's fixed beliefs" is the definition of any kind of critical thinking, and not just that associated with a particular pedagogical style.

    They have a problem with "challenging the student's fixed beliefs," because that is perceived as "undermining parental authority." That is, schools are to refrain from any teaching regimen that encourages children to make their own judgments, because, regardless of fact, the student must believe the same thing the parents do.

    That doesn't strike you as just a little off?
    I don't know exactly what program they want to put in place of OBE. My presumption is that they simply want seventh graders to learn about hard agreed upon facts before they discuss controversial issues.

    It's the difference between learning the hard facts of meteorology before having a ten week class that teaches kids about climatology by discussing whether human caused climate change is real.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #48
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Jesus Fucking Christ.

  9. #49
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think they just threw Outcome-Based Education out there in an attempt to lend some legitimacy to their position. The truth is, they want to make sure their kids don't question whether or not there really was a flood or some guy rose from the dead 2000 years ago.
    So?
    Does that make them wrong for opposing OBE?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #50
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't know exactly what program they want to put in place of OBE. My presumption is that they simply want seventh graders to learn about hard agreed upon facts before they discuss controversial issues.

    It's the difference between learning the hard facts of meteorology before having a ten week class that teaches kids about climatology by discussing whether human caused climate change is real.
    Well, by the time you get to 7th Grade in Texas, you're not being taught via the OBE method anymore, because you're being taught for one purpose: passing the TAKS test.

    What they want is for education to be almost wholly dedicated to the rote memorization of facts from an authority, reinforcing the lesson that authorities are to be obeyed, and that one's success is dependent on how well you please the authority. That's all it is.

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