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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    But they will lack the critical thinking skills necessary to recognize it for what it is.
    Not all of us do.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Not all of us do.
    Well, you've always struck me as a healthy mixture of Orange and Green, probably experiencing integration into Yellow/Turquoise.

  3. #33
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Texans live in an alternate reality. To them, this isn't controversial, they believe that everyone will follow their lead because they're Texas...go Longhorns! go Cowboys!
    I grew up outside of Houston, btw. Back in those days, the concern was that those damn libruls (read: yankees) were trying to tax us to death. The social issues were more of a general unease with the rapidity of social change, but nothing too terribly reactionary. This is quite different.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I grew up outside of Houston, btw. Back in those days, the concern was that those damn libruls (read: yankees) were trying to tax us to death. The social issues were more of a general unease with the rapidity of social change, but nothing too terribly reactionary. This is quite different.
    I didn't grow up in Texas, but I have a LOT of relatives in Texas and I spent a few summers in Dallas when I was younger. I think things changed when the Republican party overthrew the Democratic party in the 90s. The state has been declining ever since.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Bullshit is in the eye of the beholder. (not really -- and, as an Integral thinker, I understand this; hence, my long-held position on "flabby relativism")

    And I wouldn't expect a Sensor to understand this stuff anyway...




    Well, yes.

    And you would be one of the most blatant Greens I could think of.

    Oh boy. You would be suckered into some Deepak Chopra level lunacy if it meant that you could feel superior.

    And no, bullshit is bullshit.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh boy. You would be suckered into some Deepak Chopra level lunacy if it meant that you could feel superior.
    Actually, I don't like Deepak Chopra.

    But he is a student of Ken Wilber's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    And no, bullshit is bullshit.
    Yes, I know.

    Like all your blustering about patriarchy.

    I guess you didn't see the white writing between the lines.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Actually, I don't like Deepak Chopra.

    But he is a student of Ken Wilber's.
    Probably because Chopra is a little less "I'm a second-tier, you're a first-tier, neener, neener, neener!" That's less satisfying for a narcissist.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #38
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    They are right in that critical thinking can undermine authority. But they actually oppose critical thinking. They wrote that. In real life.

    I'll just say that if your authority can be undermined through critical thinking, you could benefit from some critical thinking yourself.
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  9. #39
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    Wow, words are powerful.

    The one thing this proves is that using the proper words is absolutely necessary to winning the war of public opinion.

    If you label your teaching practices "critical thinking" or "higher order thinking" most people will support it without even knowing or asking what they stand for and automatically regard people as retarded who oppose such great sounding things.

    I don't think the GOP opposes critical thinking or higher levels of thinking. They oppose a particular teaching method that uses those labels. I'm sure the GOP supports critical thinking skills. They just think you get there by a different route. In fact, they believe the method endorsed by liberals is meant to dumb down the population.

    How many of you actually understand the difference between outcome based education (OBE) and traditional methods?

    I didn't know the difference, but instead of presuming the GOP is full of idiots I did some quick research and came across this argument for the traditional method against the modern method.

    O. B. E. is "outcome-skills based." It teaches "rhetoric" level skills without teaching the basic "grammar" and "logic" level skills. Here is an illustration:

    Let's say we're going to teach you to play Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata on the piano by the O. B. E. method. We'll call this the "whole music" method. We'll sit you down at the piano and begin with the Moonlight Sonata. We'll tell you where to put your fingers, and we'll take you rotely through the piece. We may break the piece up into smaller and simpler portions at first, and we may introduce some "look-play" flash cards along the way. Eventually you will learn to play the Moonlight Sonata. It is likely you'll get your "certificate of mastery" for the Moonlight Sonata sooner than if we had taught you by the Trivium method.

    What if you want to learn another song? That's where the difference in methods becomes noticeable. You'll have to come to us, and we'll have to teach you. We are the trainers, and you are the trainee. We are the masters, and you are the slave. You will be dependent upon us for everything you learn.

    Of course there will be a few students who will "learn by ear" and who will "catch on" to the technique after a few songs. (Just as there are a few who figure out much of the English phonetic codes, and spelling and grammar rules on their own.) But most students will not figure it out on their own.

    That is the Outcome Based Education method: You get good looking results faster, but they are shallow, and they don't last long. But most important of all, they create intellectual cripples who depend upon the educational system. Why? Because you never master the basics! You only master the outcomes! Creativity is tremendously stifled, because the student is never given the tools with which to create.
    http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/obe_tbe.php

    Maybe you still think OBE is superior, but to label the GOP as being against critical thinking skills is misleading and wrong. Many of the brightest people I know were classically educated. Admittedly I don't know that much about the difference between traditional and modern teaching methods, but I do know that this debate is more complex than people are making it out to be.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #40
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    They. Said. It. Specifically. In. Their. Platform.

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