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  1. #181
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    I don't think this situation crosses any threshold that should require gov't action.

  2. #182
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Mother's Knee, School and University

    At our mother's knee we learn our mother-tongue, our native language. And at our mother's knee we learn our religion.

    In primary school we learn our culture by learning to read and write.

    And in secondary school we deepen our knowledge of our literate culture.

    But in tertiary education we learn to critique our literate culture.

    So critical thinking is not called for at our mother's knee or in school, but is de rigueur in university.

  3. #183
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    At our mother's knee we learn our mother-tongue, our native language. And at our mother's knee we learn our religion.

    In primary school we learn our culture by learning to read and write.

    And in secondary school we deepen our knowledge of our literate culture.

    But in tertiary education we learn to critique our literate culture.

    So critical thinking is not called for at our mother's knee or in school, but is de rigueur in university.
    Fortunately, some of our mothers (or fathers) teach it to us nonetheless.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #184
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    to whom?
    An irrelevant question

    well, it's not really relevant, but i apologize.
    left/democrat/liberal/whatever identifier you like.
    Call me a former Republican, now independent, who is sick of the anti-science attitude the party has taken on over the last decade or so.

    i guess the fallacy i committed doesn't earn the same exemption your perpetual vitriol against the "evangelical right," does so i correct and apologize.
    I believe my position has far more basis in reality than yours. I grew up surrounded by evangelicals, and I've known evangelicals in multiple states. I believe my significant experience qualifies me as somewhat of an expert on the culture, beliefs, and attitudes of evangelicals, as a group.


    by the same logic, i could say that since you chose not to address my point about the habit liberals have, of distorting language for the purpose of advancing arguably corrupt policy, validates an assumption on my part that you can't back up any counter-argument.

    so be my guest. assume i can't back it up. i mentioned already, i've said my peace.
    i've done research commensurate to my legal voting capacity. no need for me to do yours.
    The term "liberal" is far too vague and poorly defined to have any real meaning in this context. For many people, "liberal" is just a label they slap on anyone who does not agree with them. There's no way you can make any sort of broad statements about such a large, diverse group. If you want to throw out a better definition for "liberal", something that actually represents a group where the people hold a significant portion of their beliefs in common, then maybe I'll take you more seriously.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #185
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    At our mother's knee we learn our mother-tongue, our native language. And at our mother's knee we learn our religion.

    In primary school we learn our culture by learning to read and write.

    And in secondary school we deepen our knowledge of our literate culture.

    But in tertiary education we learn to critique our literate culture.

    So critical thinking is not called for at our mother's knee or in school, but is de rigueur in university.
    Some people develop critical thinking naturally.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #186
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    An irrelevant question


    Call me a former Republican, now independent, who is sick of the anti-science attitude the party has taken on over the last decade or so.


    I believe my position has far more basis in reality than yours. I grew up surrounded by evangelicals, and I've known evangelicals in multiple states. I believe my significant experience qualifies me as somewhat of an expert on the culture, beliefs, and attitudes of evangelicals, as a group.



    The term "liberal" is far too vague and poorly defined to have any real meaning in this context. For many people, "liberal" is just a label they slap on anyone who does not agree with them. There's no way you can make any sort of broad statements about such a large, diverse group. If you want to throw out a better definition for "liberal", something that actually represents a group where the people hold a significant portion of their beliefs in common, then maybe I'll take you more seriously.
    Do you remember who you're talking to here?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #187
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Call me a former Republican, now independent, who is sick of the anti-science attitude the party has taken on over the last decade or so.
    Does this mean you now accept that the existence (but not the severity or impact)of global climate change is, for all practical purposes, a scientific consensus?

    Though on that issue, I'm even more alienated from the the 'pro-science' democrats, whose 'solutions' are futile at best, counter-productive at worst, and detrimental to the economy in the meantime.

  8. #188
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Does this mean you now accept that the existence (but not the severity or impact)of global climate change is, for all practical purposes, a scientific consensus?

    Though on that issue, I'm even more alienated from the the 'pro-science' democrats, whose 'solutions' are futile at best, counter-productive at worst, and detrimental to the economy in the meantime.
    The phenomenon of global warming is indisputable. I believe the cause of that warming, or the extent of carbon dioxide's contribution, is still up for debate just as I believe Big Bang theory is still up for debate (I'm not a fan of inflation theory, it's too contrived and hasn't been/can't be experimentally tested). But here's the difference between me and the evangelicals, I don't reject claims made by scientists simply because they don't agree with a holy book. I'm open to the idea that everything I believe right now could be wrong. And I'm certainly not going to demonize scientists because I disagree with some of the conclusions they have drawn.

    What I love about science is that we eventually get it right, even if the road is sometimes bumpy or leads to a dead end.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #189
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Some people develop critical thinking naturally.
    We all learn to speak our native language naturally at our mother's knee, but almost all of us are compelled to go to school by law to learn to read and write.

    In other words, learning to speak is intuitive while learning to read and write is counter-intuitive.

    And critical thinking is counter-intuitive because it cause cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful.

    Also critical thinking is counter-intuitive because it is a critique of literacy and literate culture.

    And naturally those who have not learnt to think critically console themselves with the illusion that critical thinking can be developed naturally, when critical thinking is anything but natural.

  10. #190
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We all learn to speak our native language naturally at our mother's knee, but almost all of us are compelled to go to school by law to learn to read and write.

    In other words, learning to speak is intuitive while learning to read and write is counter-intuitive.

    And critical thinking is counter-intuitive because it cause cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful.

    Also critical thinking is counter-intuitive because it is a critique of literacy and literate culture.

    And naturally those who have not learnt to think critically console themselves with the illusion that critical thinking can be developed naturally, when critical thinking is anything but natural.
    Oh, I like this. It's very much true.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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